A love letter from an antisemite

Lio: This is a conversation that actually should have happened a while back. I would say maybe after the expulsion from Spain. It didn't happen then. And then we went through the Holocaust, and it also didn't happen after the Holocaust because we got a little breather, and Israel was stopping. Is there any view that people...

Seth: ...disagree with? They blame its invention on the Jews.

Lio: And by the way, they're right. Jews have done all of that. I just look at Twitter. Someone yelled at Jews, "Get the fuck off my earth."

Seth: They killed us, and now you're saying that I'm responsible for it? I mean, it's like, you know, my boyfriend hit me, and you're telling me I'm responsible.

Lio: Like, he's writing a whole book about how much he hates Jews, and then inside there's a chapter about, "Oh my God, I wish you could show me the way," kind of.

Seth: What would he call the International Jew, the world's foremost problem? Ford wrote that book. I couldn't believe it when I saw that.

Lio: I know. World's foremost problem: not kill all Jews. There's a problem, but we need you. Like, you need to do something. You're not doing something. That's what I'm getting. Al, what is a Jew? What does it mean to be Jewish? Tell me!

Seth: The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was. All things are mortal, but the Jew. All other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Lio: Okay, listen, enough of that. This is a podcast, and we're not gonna try to find... we're gonna find the solution to antisemitism, okay? We're gonna stop that right here, right now. From this stinking basement. When we get to the bottom of this, we're gonna read from this mystery book, which you're not gonna find out about until the end of the series. And we're gonna really entertain every perspective. We're not gonna say, "Oh, you can't say this, you can't say that." No, we're gonna say everything because if we're not gonna be able to talk about it, we're not gonna be able to solve it. We're gonna really grab you in the kishkas, and we're gonna squeeze until we get something right, either a bowel movement or a freaking solution. We want to know what happened, what happened 3,500 years ago in Babylon that started this whole mess, and we want to finish it here in 2020. That's it. Welcome to The Jew Function, the only podcast that is brave enough or stupid enough, I don't know, you decide, to have the kind of conversation that we should be having, but we're not. Why is there Jew hatred? Why are so many people, still after all these years, hating the Jews? We're, as we said, reading from a mystery book, which we're not going to reveal until the end of it. So stick with us. It's like a detective, a historic detective story. We're going to try to find these patterns in nature, in history, in our own history, that are going to clue us in as to why this phenomenon exists. Why does it persist? What makes this particular hatred so special? What makes this particular group so unique, so different? And we are willing to ask all the questions, open it up, and get every point of view as long as we find an answer. Because what's important now is not to have an opinion, but actually first to ask the questions. And so, that's what I hope we're going to be doing here in this series, and we're doing this with my very good friend Seth Breit.

Seth: Hi, Leo.

Lio: Why are you so quiet, Seth? We're going to be reading from this mystery book, but also maybe if we're lucky, we're going to get some taste from Seth's new book, Jew: Antidote to Antisemitism, right? A ch, huh, as they say. I saw this joke somewhere. So I think that's what we're trying to do. And it's important to say that I talk to a lot of people, and I don't... how should I put it? I don't blame anyone for anything. Not the Jews, not the antisemites. I think we are all born into this reality, this weird reality, where we have this weird relationship between us. What I am kind of losing my patience with is the fact that we're so complacent with the narrative. This is it. I mean, we're Jews. People always try to kill us for whatever reason, and you just have to get on with the program, right? That's the kind of weird part that I refuse to...

Seth: And I know you're refusing to accept this, but it is pretty unusual for a normal person to see one group killing another group. What I heard people say to you, or the way people reply to this is, "You're..." what do they call it? Victim shaming, victim blaming, or something. It's...

Lio: ...a thing.

Seth: It's an expression. Yeah. Well, they killed us, so now you're saying that I'm responsible for it? I mean, it's like, you know, my boyfriend hit me, and you're telling me I'm responsible, or in the rape culture, it's like, you know, I brought it on myself because of how I dress. I understand what you're saying, but it is a hard thing. It's a different thing to try and entertain. It's very different than just saying, okay, well, they killed, so they're the bad guy. And we're definitely... I don't think you're justifying the bad guy, but I'm not justifying anyone. What are you saying then?

Lio: I'm just saying that I want to break the cycle. I think we made that clear last week.

Seth: Which cycle?

Lio: The cycle where I just look at Twitter, someone yelled at Jews, "Get the fuck off my earth." That specific directive. I want to break that cycle. And I believe with all my heart that everything we're doing, we have been doing so far, is not working. I'm not deriding the efforts. You know, passing laws, fighting Holocaust deniers, holding marches, standing against hate crimes, education, you know, Jews don't all have big noses, whatever it is, it's all in part of it. But none of those things gets to the root of the issue. And I'll tell you more than that. In The Jew Function, one of the things we try to do is to look at modern science, look at network science, big data. And what is becoming super clear is that we live in a network, in a system. And in a system, nothing works on its own. Nothing has its own volition. Like, "Oh, I'm just going to be an asshole to this thing or to that." Rather, it's all intricate forces. I think I don't want to get too much into this, but maybe down the line, we'll talk more about what even science is telling us about our free choice and what motivates us and how we do things. It's not so simple as "This guy doesn't like me, and I'm asking you to please stop not liking me." There's much more at work here, is what I'm saying.

Seth: I can't believe that under the guise of antisemitism, we're unraveling the laws of perception of reality and the true nature of reality in and of itself. That's what it sounds like you're saying.

Lio: No, listen, for sure. It sounds like what you're saying is that there's a lot more to this than just one guy hating another guy for some reason.

Seth: Lio, I think so. I think we have to keep an open mind and prepare to do some thinking. It's gonna be sweaty, but we're gonna get through this together like we've done everything so far. What I want to do is really, without further ado, start on the book. Let's read. We're going to read chapter one from the mystery book. What's the title here? Hold on. "Who are the Jews and Why is There Jew Hatred?" Sir, will you do the honors, please?

Seth: No smoke without a fire. Ever since they first appeared, the Hebrews, who were subsequently referred to as the Israelites, and finally, as Jews, have been singled out, for the most part, for condemnation. In the wake of the massacre at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh on October 27, 2018, The Wall Street Journal dedicated an article to the oldest hatred, namely, antisemitism. The article stated that the murders were an awful reminder that there are human hatreds far more virulent and ancient than those that animate our current political divisions. This irrational hatred, asserted the writer, is one of humanity's oldest and manifests itself in murder almost daily in the Middle East. Jews are killed simply because they were Jews, as they have been throughout history. This is why millions have sought refuge in a Jewish State, Israel, and also in the religious protections embedded in the Constitution of the United States. Jew hatred is irrational. There are as many reasons for hating Jews as there are people.

Lio: This is good, right? Irrational. I think this is a key moment to acknowledge that this is an irrational hatred. It's almost counterintuitive that so many people would harbor such feelings of animosity towards the one group that, really, without kind of patting ourselves on the shoulder, gave so much to humanity, right? There's more Nobel Prize winners per capita among the Jewish people. I know Jews like to cite that there are more museums per capita in Israel, or more whatever, cherry tomatoes per child in the Nobel...

Seth: Prize and everything. It's a weird thing that we point out in my book, the same concept. If Jews are called the chosen people, you have Jews called the inferior race. You have Jews... they say the Jews created communism. They say Jews created capitalism.

Lio: Like, they killed Christ in Christianity, they're revolutionary. It doesn't matter what...

Seth: The problem, for sure these guys somehow created it. It's like somehow they fit into every shape that'll just seal each hatred just right. Well, it's good. You...

Lio: There's something for everyone here, right? There's as many reasons for hating Jews as there are people, so you know, if you don't hate Jews, then maybe you can find something inside of you that will motivate you. Let's read on.

Seth: There are as many reasons for hating Jews as there are people. Everything that upsets, offends, hurts, or otherwise displeases people, they often attribute to the Jews. Jews have suffered from blood libels, such as baking the matzahs, the Passover bread, with the blood of Christian children. They have been accused of poisoning wells, dominating the slave trade from Africa to America, and disloyalty to the countries where they live. More recently, they have been accused of manipulating the media to serve their needs. Modernity has also created a new kind of blood libel, accusing Jews of organ harvesting and of spreading AIDS. Moreover, Jews are often accused of conflicting crimes. Communists accuse them of creating capitalism. Capitalists accuse them of inventing communism. Christians accused Jews of killing Jesus, and the French philosopher François Voltaire accused them of inventing and spreading Christianity. In short, any view that people disagree with, they blame its invention on the Jews.

Lio: And by the way, they're right. Jews have done all of those things.

Seth: And as if all of this is not enough, the Jews have also been labeled as warmongers and as cowards, racists and cosmopolitans, spineless and unbending, and so on and so forth ad infinitum. Yet the fact that antisemitism is irrational does not mean that it is without reason, a root that causes it. In fact, thinking that there is no reason for antisemitism is just as irrational as antisemitism itself. Just as there is no smoke without a fire, nothing can happen without something that causes it, and in the case of Jew hatred, fuels the fire for millennia. Since there is clearly a cause, we should find it, treat it if we can, and cure it before the flames burst once again and land another blow on our people. To find the reason for antisemitism and its cure, we should look into the past, to the onset of our nation and the subsequent hatred thereof. When we understand how and mainly why the Jewish people was founded and became a nation, we will also see why there is hatred of Jews and how we can mend it.

Lio: We often look at street-level antisemitism, the guy yelling, "Get the fuck off my earth," and, you know, the guys who draw the swastikas and all those things. It's easy for us to react to that. But I think it's when you read the things that notable antisemites wrote at the turn of the last century and even the mid-twentieth century. That's when it gets really spooky. It's almost like these guys were trying to tell us something. Like he's writing a whole book about how much he hates Jews, and then inside there's a chapter about, "Oh my God, I wish you could show me the way," kind of. So I want to read, let's read that. So we just mess with that part a little bit because we'll jump to the end. Here. So let's go with non-Jews who sense the meaning of Jewishness. We'll read a few of those quotes, let them just kind of explode in our brain for a moment, and then we can go to the story of Abraham.

Seth: As the examples just shown testify, throughout the generations our sages and leaders have written tirelessly about the need for unity as a means to keep us safe. They also wrote about how only when we are united can we be a light unto nations. But not only Jews knew and wrote about the unique quality of our people and our task to be role models. In some cases, it came from our most ardent haters. In other cases, it came from mere Gentiles. It is said that we Jews are a stiff-necked people. Admittedly, we are. We also tend not to listen when fellow Jews talk to us about unity. But perhaps if we hear about it from the very ones who are meant to be our enemies, our ears and hearts will open up to the call.

Lio: Yes, this is to all of you out there who don't want to listen to anyone who thinks you have all the answers. Right. My uncle knows who he is.

Seth: Friends and your family.

Lio: Yeah, all the friends and family.

Seth: Probably the most infamous anti-Semite in American history was industrialist and car maker Henry Ford. In his infamous composition, I couldn't believe it when I first saw that Henry Ford...

Seth: ...wrote a book called 'The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem.' Henry Ford wrote that book. I couldn't believe when I saw that.

Lio: I know. It was like, how did I miss that? How did all of... okay, anyway.

Seth: Well, in Henry Ford's infamous composition, The International Jew, the World's Foremost Problem, Ford interlaced some curious statements that do not sound as though they came from the mind of a Jew hater. "The whole prophetic purpose with reference to the people of Israel seems to have been the moral enlightenment of the world through its agency," he wrote. Ford writes several similar statements about the expectation of the world for Jews to be agents of positive change. The answer to what positive change he has in mind is found almost at the very beginning of the book: "Modern reformers who are constructing model social systems on paper would do well to look into the social system under which the early Jews were organized."

Lio: You know, I'm still stuck on the first one, which I somehow missed, although it's highlighted in the book. "The whole prophetic purpose with reference to the people of Israel seems to have been the moral enlightenment of the world through its..."

Seth: ...agency. He goes into very practical things in his book about what he perceives as the problem with the Jews, how they are like rats, and how they bring everything down. But he also says things like this.

Lio: Exactly, that the early social systems under which the early Jews were organized should be an example to everyone. So, that's good. We'll get to those early systems very soon. Let's continue.

Seth: Not only Ford had a conscious demand from Jews. Other antisemites were also keenly aware of what they wanted to see from the Jews. You know, I know you love this guy.

Lio: Yeah, I love it.

Seth: Ukraine-born Vasily Shulgin was a senior member of the Duma, the Russian parliament, before the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. Openly and proudly, he proclaimed himself an antisemite and often reiterated that statement in his book.

Lio: Yeah, he writes about it.

Seth: Sorry, I meant he often reiterated that statement.

Lio: He writes a book, right? It says what we don't like about them.

Seth: It's very straightforward. He analyzes over many essays his perception of the Jews and what he thinks they're doing wrong. Shulgin complains that Jews in the twentieth century have become very smart, effective, and vigorous at exploiting other people's ideas. However, he protests, this is not an occupation for teachers and prophets. So he's not happy with that. Not the role of guides of the blind. Not the role of carriers of the lame. This apparent contrast between hating Jews and seeing them as a people obliged to guide the blind, namely the rest of humanity, shows Shulgin's frequent repetition of this demand, proving it's not a slip of the pen, but his genuine view. In another essay, Shulgin becomes almost poetic. This is a huge antisemite we're talking about here.

Lio: Huge antisemite. Again, the book is titled What We Don't Like About Them.

Seth: Shulgin becomes almost poetic as he describes where the Jews can lead humanity if they only rise to the challenge. "Let them rise to the height to which they apparently climbed in antiquity, and immediately all nations will rush to their feet. They will not rush by virtue of compulsion, but by free will, joyful in spirit, grateful and loving, including the Russians. We ourselves will request, 'Give us Jewish rule, wise, benevolent, leading us to the good,' and every day we will offer prayers for them, for the Jews, 'Bless our guides and our teachers who lead us to the recognition of your goodness.'"

Lio: I read this quote. I had chills. No one has ever said anything so nice to me, certainly not any Jewish person. For me, this was kind of a turning point, you know, to hear this. We'll hear more of these guys, but it's like, what are they trying to say? They want us to rise to that height. They want us to lead them. They will join us by free will, joyful, they will ask for our rule, wise, benevolent. Clearly, they want something and we're not doing it. That's what I'm getting here.

Seth: So far, I'm seeing a distinction between what you called earlier "street antisemitism" and these really thought-out, accomplished antisemites.

Lio: Yeah, those nice antisemites. The ones you want to have at your party.

Seth: Not the ones where you could exchange antisemitism for anything else, like "I'm in a bad mood" or "my landlord's Jewish and so I'm mad at him."

Lio: I'm talking.

Seth: Like these people really thought through the problem.

Lio: No, and I want to say again, at this point, maybe someone is already... and that's okay. I'm not saying these guys were necessarily great people. They may have been terrible in other respects. What I am curious about are those statements, which they were under no obligation to put in their books. They didn't need the approval of some Jewish Council. They didn't need the Jewish vote. Shulgin wrote a book that says what we don't like about them. And then he puts that in the book. Nor does Henry Ford write about the need for Jews to do something positive.

Seth: Right. The International Jew, the World's Foremost Problem.

Lio: And again, world's foremost problem, not "kill all Jews." There's a problem, but we need you. You need to do something. You're not doing something. That's what I'm getting from this.

Seth: The French publisher, author, journalist, and filmmaker Al Sor is such a rabid antisemite. He has been tried and convicted of antisemitic slurs numerous times. But the fines he is repeatedly sentenced to pay have no effect on his tirades. In an interview he gave on October 17, 2014, right before he entered yet another court hearing, the interviewer asked him, "What is a Jew? What does it mean to be Jewish?" Sor replied, "Like, 'Al, what is a Jew? What does it mean to be Jewish? Tell me.'" Sor replied that the Jews are a people of priests, an elite, pioneers in morals and ethics. However, he added, there's a deviation that has become the majority. The Jews consider themselves a separate people, a state within a state. Finally, he speaks of the Jewish community, saying, "I'm just showing the danger of the deviation of the community," and he warns, "In the end, the wheel will turn against those who manipulate."

Lio: And then Rockwell?

Seth: Another contemporary example is the neo-Nazi George Lincoln Rockwell. In his book White Power, Rockwell nonetheless makes some very interesting observations regarding the Jews, and not necessarily negative ones. When he writes about unity among the Jews, he states, "In fact, the group loyalty of these Jews is perhaps the most fantastic in the history of the world. It has propelled them into near mastery of the entire world, not because they are braver, work harder, are more intelligent, or more worthy than the rest of us, but because they observe the basic laws of nature and maintain group loyalty, while all the rest of us have fallen for their rotten 'One World, we are all brothers' garbage which disintegrates our society. The Jews maintain their society with a group loyalty such as history has never before seen, and thus they go from one triumph to another."

Lio: That's one of the things that got me very much, this particular point, because it seems as if, on the one hand, we have something undeniable that binds us. I think everybody feels it, whether we're marching in solidarity or not. We all feel this inner brotherhood. On the other hand, we fail to really live up to it. And yet, we go out and preach it, and we find the Jewish people heading all the right, all the liberal parties, and you know, brotherly love, and all that. So, in a way, it seems like that's the thing that riles everybody up. Like we go out and preach it, but in reality, we fail to deliver that thing which we have but aren't exercising daily towards one another.

Seth: For some reason, when you started saying that, I was thinking of people like Bernie Sanders. I was actually thinking of Jews who are kind of against Jews. It's like they even feel ashamed. It's almost as if Jews feel, well, it's not spoken, I don't think it's even conscious, but they are almost ashamed that the Jews are not doing this. Like, take the attention off us. There's nothing special, nothing to see here.

Lio: Well, can you blame them? They don't feel it. Again, if you don't feel it, why would you even stand up for it?

Seth: So, who does feel it? Because they're saying that the Jews have this, but which Jew?

Lio: The guy at the kosher butcher store. We got to find those Jews somewhere.

Seth: They exist.

Lio: Or we got to make them. But there's this thing that these guys are talking about, right? And there's something that the Bible talks about. There are some things that people know. You know, all these powerful Jews. There's something, but how can you put your finger on it?

Lio: I don't know. It's a mystery wrapped in duck bacon. Duck bacon kosher?

Seth: Yeah, of course. Other non-Jews. Other non-Jews.

Lio: Oh, no, I'm sorry. If you could use... if you could use...

Seth: The author continues. If we could use this enviable trait to benefit all humanity, we would demonstrate it in a way that everyone could emulate, instead of falling for the garbage that Rockwell writes about. There would be no antisemitism to speak of, there would simply be no reason for anyone to hate Jews, since people would know how to unite. And united people do not hate each other or their teachers, as Shulgin writes.

Seth: Other non-Jews, who were not necessarily antisemites, were also keenly aware of the role they believed Jews were meant to play with regard to humanity. One such example is acclaimed historian Paul Johnson, who wrote in his composition A History of the Jews, "At a very early stage in their collective existence, the Jews believed they had detected a divine scheme for the human race, of which their own society was to be a pilot."

Lio: We still have to find out who the Jewish people are.

Seth: We still don't know. We kind of skipped.

Seth: What do we know? We do know that there are a few really serious antisemites who went so far as to publish things such as books. The International Jew, the World's Foremost Problem. Big, important guys, successful guys. Nobody would mistake them as fools. And they wrote some scathing things about Jews, and then they also wrote some of the nicest things anyone could say about you.

Lio: It feels like a fight with your wife, you know, when she's like, she really wants to kill you, stab you, kick you out of the house. And somewhere in between the words, she really hopes that you will man up and just do the right thing a little bit.

Seth: I'm blushing for you.

Lio: Well, you know, it could be anyone's wife. The point is that in any relationship, there's an intuitive feeling that you need one another. But sometimes you need to get the other's attention, right? It's like... and he does say, and we do feel that Jews are stubborn. You know, we're a stubborn bunch, we're stiff-necked, we know it all. We even invented Google just to make sure everyone knows we know it all. And yet, here are these guys making a plea, almost like I almost sympathize with... I know people will...

Seth: Yeah, this is, we're really in dangerous territory with this podcast.

Seth: Dangerous territory, yeah.

Seth: If it was ever platformed...

Seth: There could be two platforms.

Seth: I wish people could spend a lot of time with you and understand your intentions and understand what you're trying to say. And that I know you, so when you're saying these things, I know you're not saying "These antisemites are..." what are you saying, Leo?

Lio: No, I want people to think about it. I don't want to say what I think. I think that line from the end that you read, "If we could use this enviable trait to the benefit of all humanity..."

Lio: If we...

Lio: Could demonstrate it in a way that everyone could emulate, instead of falling for the garbage that Rockwell writes about. Actually emulate it. Do it. Not just, yeah, brotherly love. There is a Jewish brotherly love. I felt it. I feel it every day. I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by such friends. It exists, but it doesn't permeate our society. And then it doesn't radiate outside. That's what I'm hearing also from here. There would be no antisemitism to speak of. There would simply be no reason for anyone to hate Jews since people would know how to unite, and united people do not hate each other or their teachers. And again, I know we threw that word unity, and we didn't even cover Abraham, but we will get to it. We will get to it in our next episode. Why, from the word unity? We'll get to that. Where did it come from? Who are those people? You know, who are Jews? Are you a Jew? Am I a Jew? Is everyone Jewish? You know, we'll get into that next week.

Seth: Beyond religion, beyond sects, yeah. Go beyond all.

Lio: Remove the emotions. Take away the emotions. Look at those gems, I don't know, from history and from everything people write, and try to discern for yourself. We'll find out. This is The Jew Function, the only podcast that is willing to talk about this. I want people to ask questions and be ready to hear all sides and all the voices that have weighed in on this problem for two thousand years. This is a conversation that should have happened a while back. I would say maybe after the expulsion from Spain. It didn't happen then. Then we went through the Holocaust, and it also didn't happen after the Holocaust because we got a little breather and Israel was established. Then Jews came to America, and everything seemed great. I'm saying that nothing is great. It's not working. Whatever we've been doing has not solved this issue and has not alleviated the problem. The world is not actually moving in a better direction. I think this is all part of the same thing, and we need to ask those questions and be ready to face what comes out. I don't know what the final answer is, but I know we have to ask those questions. We have to have this conversation. How did you feel about it?

Seth: I feel nervous. I feel nervous because I want people to be able to hold on and listen to this conversation and get involved in it. I'm nervous that people's impulse to dismiss it is going to prevent them from listening or they will immediately say, "How could you be justifying this hateful person?" It's so counterintuitive, right? Like this person committed a crime, they're wrong, they're guilty.

Lio: I also wanted to say, if you're an anti-Semite and you're listening to us, that's okay too. It doesn't mean you need to go and beat Jews up, say terrible things, or kill all Jews, but probably what you're feeling is a real feeling. I think it's important also to acknowledge that. I'm not condemning Jews who are trying to protect themselves from these attacks and do everything in their power to really defend their survival. And by the way, I'm also not condemning the guys who are doing it. It's not like everyone is simply working in isolation. We all have feelings, and we act on them. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "I'm going to be a terrible person today." I think it's true for Jews and for non-Jews. But I think we are looking at something deeper here that's at play, and we need to acknowledge it. So, hold on to your seats. Like I said, we're going to make a lot of people uncomfortable in this podcast because what's at stake is too big. This is The Jew Function. You can follow us on Twitter and Facebook at The Jew Function. You can go to our website for a comprehensive experience detailing our explanation about the root of antisemitism and the solution to it, according to network science and big data, and our YouTube channel. Also, The Jew Function with lots of other playlists and some hard-hitting conversations, specifically with Jews and anti-Semites, discussing the origin of this phenomenon and how to solve it. We want answers, and I think we're asking the right questions. So we'll see.

Seth: From the basement somewhere in Brooklyn.