People can be mean. So what.

TheJewFunction | Tali Aynalem Hosts: Lio and Seth | Guest: Tali Aynalem Lio • 01:30 Welcome to TheJewFunction. I'm Lio. Seth • 01:32 Hey, I'm Seth. Hi everyone. Lio • 01:34 And we are here to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to solve the problem of Jew hatred. It's this tiny, annoying thing that's been bugging the Jews forever. And we just got sick and tired of this and we rolled up our sleeves and we decided to investigate it, not just deal with the symptoms and with the haters, but to really try to understand what's the root cause for that hatred. So to do that, we looked at history. We looked at 3,000 years of recorded history, and we found a lot of patterns. And we looked at the words of Jewish sages who have been talking about this, writing about this. And if you know how to read what they write, you find a great many answers to all those big questions. And we also found a lot of proof for that in network science, the relationship between hubs and nodes in the network. All those things point to one conclusion. Jews need to unite and they need to show the world what it means to live in a united way where you love the other. You don't have to like the other, but you love the other and you care for them as if they're a part of you. And you learn how to cover all these frictions and transgressions and crimes between us with love. Obviously, that takes additional learning, but that's the thing in a nutshell. And we have the first season, 22 episodes that are dedicated to that and to the timeline of Jewish history. So I encourage everyone to check it out. You can find it on our YouTube, on Spotify, everywhere. Like, comment, hit the bell so you can get notified when another episode is up. And we have a great guest today. She, I want to recall the last time that Ashira Solomon was here, and that's a great episode that you're invited to check. I don't have the number off the top of my head, but you can just search for it and you'll find it. She's a black Jewish woman, and she told us that if you claim to fight racism but stay silent about Jew hatred, you're just as much a part of the problem. And today we're turning up the heat with Tali Aynalem. She's here. She's Ethiopian, Jewish, Israeli, American, former IDF soldier. And we want to open up this topic with her and specifically all the work that she's been doing about why so many progressive spaces treat Jews as collateral damage. And why this weird, distorted social phenomenon that is plaguing everyone around the world. And maybe together we'll also find ways to bring Jews a little closer. Tali, please join us. Seth • 04:22 Hi. Tali • 04:23 Thanks for having me. Lio • 04:26 We're very happy to have you. And, maybe you can tell us a little bit. You have a very active Instagram channel and you create a lot of content on this topic. You're trying to sort of expose the irrational nature of this hatred for the Jews. When doing all this work, getting up there every time you have to put out a new video and champion the Jewish cause, do you feel that you're any closer to solving this problem? Tali • 05:05 No. Short answer. Lio • 05:08 All the time you have today. Tali • 05:11 But my goal with my social media—I always say, you don't really choose your following when you start social media. I've worked in marketing for a while. And that's one thing that I've realized is you can start a channel and you can say, okay, I'm going to start this channel to debunk everything that pro Palestinians are saying. And I hope that they find my videos, but that just doesn't happen. So, because most of my following is Jewish, what I focus on is providing information so Jewish people can have information and the truth on their side. So when they are having conversations with people within their lives, they're able to use that information. But I also want it to be a safe space for you to come and get some encouragement as a Jewish person to come and say like, I feel good about wearing my Star of David or wearing a kippah and be really proud of the people that we are. So that's really my goal. I don't think that I'll be able to solve anti-Semitism. But, if I can give some strength to my people, that's definitely what I want to do. Lio • 06:23 That's definitely a great start. But were you ever able to—I don't want to say win an argument—but do you feel there's room for dialogue with people? When you meet someone who's totally brainwashed by biased media, who really has no clue what's happening and yet holds on so strongly to certain opinions against and about Jews? Do you find that there's room for dialogue? Is there a great place? Tali • 07:00 I don't debate. So I've been invited to go on different [unclear] shows and different programs like that. But that's just not my nature. I'm also just not going to debate whether or not we should exist or whether or not Israel should be a state. That's just not, if that's the conversation that we're having, I don't even need to speak to you about this because Israel is alive and well. But in real life, I'll have conversations with people that have known me forever. Anybody that's known me, especially, I've lived in Portland for a long time. So anybody that's known me knows that I'm Israeli. That's, one thing about me that I never hide and always tell people where I'm from. So I've had conversations. Most recently, one of my friends was talking to me about AIPAC. And he was like, well, they don't have to register as a foreign entity. And I was like, why would they have to register as a foreign entity? It's like you have to ask questions. People will say things to you. And the best way for me to argue with people is continue to ask them questions. It's like, why would they have to register as a foreign entity? They're not a foreign entity. It's like when you just have the truth on your side, you just have to keep asking questions to people that don't necessarily know where they're getting their information from. And that's sort of been my thing. I've lost a lot of friends, of course, like many of us have. But when I'm having conversations with people who are close to me, I try to just be curious as to where their information is coming from. Why do they believe the things that they believe especially if they feel comfortable now to have conversations with me. Lio • 08:49 All right. Along those lines, are you asking yourself questions like that? Do you have any doubts, any deeper questions you wake up with, like why this is happening? What is a Jew? What does it mean to be a Jew? What does it mean to be alive? Are you asking yourself those questions, or is everything clear to you? I'm just— Tali • 09:14 Curious. I do ask myself questions, because I just started a Substack. Last week I wrote a Substack essay titled “There’s No Judaism Without God.” When I first started writing that essay, I thought I was going to call it “There’s No Judaism Without Zionism.” And then the deeper I got into it, I realized that, at the end of the day, it’s all God, it’s all Hashem. That gives me peace in understanding the people we are and the mission we have. But really, that’s as deep as it gets for me. I always say everything in Hebrew: everything is already written for us. So that’s as deep as I go. Maybe that’s deep to some people, but it feels like a cycle, and we’ll always be hated for being successful and smart and being the light that we are supposed to be in this world. Lio • 10:24 Well, we're not all smart and successful. No, of course. Tali • 10:31 Of course. What I'm saying is like, we're not all, but we have good representation. Seth • 10:40 Mostly. Lio • 10:42 We do have good representation, the best representation. Does this have to do with your personal background, upbringing? Were you born in Israel? Tali • 10:59 Yeah. Lio • 10:59 And your family was from Ethiopia? So they came to Israel. You were born in Israel. You were raised in a religious family. Tali • 11:13 No, not really religious. Sort of just like traditional. I've gotten a little bit... I wouldn't say I'm religious. I always like to tell people I'm not religious. But just because I just don't... In America, I guess I'm not religious. I would say in Israel, I'm traditional, right? Like there's like, you sort of ebb and flow in Israel a little bit easier than you do in the States. But I will say since October 7th, I feel like I've gotten a little closer to the *dat*, the religious side of things. It just feels different for me. Like I've been able to sort of explore that a little bit deeper. I've always been a person that believes in God, like that's, that was never a question for me, but now it's sort of like digging deeper as to like who we are as a people, why was, why is Israel ours? Like when, when did Judaism start, in terms of like, within our story on Mount Sinai versus before, you know what I mean? So it's like sort of, I've just been exploring a little bit more and I feel like that's just given me a little bit more peace in this. Seth • 12:27 Those are the questions. Like if a person doesn't ask those questions, if a person, for example, one kid pokes the other kid for like a half an hour. And finally, the other kid just whack and the camera just catches the whack and that's on the headline. And if that's the end of history, if your history goes back 15 seconds and that's what you captured and that's what's all over social media and that's what's in the news and that's the narrative and then that's what informs you. If you start asking, and the same thing with what's going on in Iran, with what's going on in everything in the world, you can't look at an intelligent person while he has to manage his day-to-day life, he has to eat and sleep. There's no way to function without opening up these bigger questions and these bigger timelines of who I am. I can't live my life as if today is the only day. On the one hand, I want to live like today is the most important day and I need to make everything happen today. On the other hand, I also have to anticipate that my kids are going to come home at the end of the day and we have to have food in the house and tomorrow is also going to come and et cetera. So when you talk about these bigger questions, if a person doesn't ask these bigger questions, you can never arrive at the bigger answers. Tali • 13:52 No, I agree. Seth • 13:54 Yeah. And this situation of who are the Jews? Where does this problem come from? We have to ask really, really big questions. Not like, did we learn to read and other people didn't learn to read? But like, who the hell are we? What was Mount Sinai? Why? What is unique about this group of people? Where did this group of people originate? Lio • 14:39 How do you explain it? Tali • 14:41 I mean, I always say it’s all Hashem. It’s all God. That's really like the only explanation. And, I find it, and it's sort of like weird sometimes, to talk about these things. Cause I sort of, it's, it's like the opposite of humble. Like it's sort of like saying, when we say like, God gave us the Torah, like that, that's a big deal. And I feel like I'm almost sort of like, what's the, what’s the opposite of humble? I don’t know the word. Yeah. I’m this proud person, but it is—what a privilege it is for us to be the chosen people who get to hold on to the Torah and follow the mitzvot and be a light to the people. But with that also comes hate, and that’s how I see it. I think we need— Seth • 15:32 To have—I had a really good conversation with my AI driving home from the city last night. There should be some deep, almost like shame, that protects us. We receive the Torah—what the hell could you possibly do to earn that? You can’t earn that. It’s not like, okay, I worked for two hours and got paid a hundred bucks. To receive something from outer space, beyond time and space—there’s no action a person can do to receive that. So, on the one hand, we should feel really cautious, not wanting to abuse or take advantage of it. And I think that’s where this is leading. The Jews have this je ne sais quoi, this addition, this X factor, and it gets used to excel in business, technology, medicine, and everything. Lio • 16:28 Else. As we explored this topic, we found out why Jews excel in those places. It’s not a coincidence, and it’s not simply a result of early education. It wasn’t simply that, when everybody didn’t care about reading in the Middle Ages, we cared about reading. People catch up to reading; you can learn to read, you can learn the math. It's not simply about that. And what we found out is that Jews are people who did not exist as a biological group. We're not like one ethnicity, one, right? There was a large family that came from one set of parents. We're really representatives from all the nations that were united around an ideal. An idea, if you will. That was the idea of “Do not do to others what you would not want done to yourself,” and also, “Love the other as you love yourself.” These principles are at the heart of what makes us Jewish. And they were not merely moral or ethical qualities, even though a lot of the morals and ethics that the West relies on are rooted in them. It’s not just that. It’s actually a way to connect to others, to relate to others. And that unique relationship, when you actually activate it—because what Seth and I are seeing is that we’re not doing it right now. The Jews are not living to their full potential, as it were. But at some point in history, we were doing that. We were connected in this way. And when you do it, it opens up a whole other dimension, if you will. It gives you a fuller view of the system, like you’re looking at the system with two eyes when everybody else is looking with one eye. They lack that depth that Jews have. That’s what gives Jews the ability to see these connections. And that’s why you find Jews naturally in those places where information, resources, money, and ideas pass, because we’re naturally the hubs in the system. And that quality is what gave us that leg up on everyone else in a way. But we're using it right now simply to just feed our own, I will say, egoistic desires. I'm not saying Jews are not also, great philanthropists and altruists. And Israel just sent a team to Venezuela, even though Venezuela is notorious for hating Jews and all that. So, there's these little, sparks here and there. But right now, as a people, Seth and I, we both don't feel that we're actually exercising these principles between us. There's so much hatred and animosity between Jews, so much infighting between different streams within Judaism. There's this great deal of fighting in Israel and not the kind of fighting where you disagree in order to reach a deeper truth. It's more like one's trying to build something, the other half is trying to destroy it. And the same feeling I get from Jews in America, like some Jews in America, like you say, oh, Israel must, it's Israel. Of course, there's no question. And others are like, no, we don't need Israel. We don't need all of that. So I guess the question to you is, with all that information we just unloaded on you, do you feel that Jews are doing something, I wouldn't say wrong, but are we not living to our full potential? Do you feel that there's something that we could do better as Jews? Tali • 20:36 I would say, what could we do better? I mean, I do feel like we're just not as united. Like when I look at Israel, obviously like after October 7th, like the whole country had to unite. We just went through like a huge catastrophe. But I think we're just not. Okay, I'll say this. I feel like it's different in America and in Israel. I feel like in America, God is missing from Judaism. And this has been a revelation for me because I posted a sort of controversial post on my Instagram. I didn't realize it was controversial. I really thought I was saying like the sky's blue, but I posted a video and I said, if your mom's Jewish, you're Jewish. If your dad's Jewish and your mom's not Jewish, you're not Jewish. No, you can't be half Jewish. And that is sort of like the standard in Israel, sort of the standard train of thought, right? So when I posted that, I didn't know about American Judaism. I've lived here forever, but I didn't realize that there's Reform, Modern Orthodox. I just didn't understand sort of like the different shades of Judaism. Yeah. So when I posted that, I did not know that I was posting something that was like extremely controversial. And then I sort of like had to dig deeper and understand that American Judaism is sort of based on culture. A person can be an atheist and still, you know what I mean, light their Shabbat candles, even though they're literally speaking directly to God. Everything is sort of based on the things that you do and eat. And you know what I mean? It's sort of, it's sort of like missing, it's literally missing God. It's missing Torah. There's obviously, in places like New York and Miami, like there's like more religious Jews, in L.A. There obviously are religious Jews, but it seemed like the majority in this country bases their Judaism on just like the foods that they're eating or like, different traditions that they have rather than like the Torah and God. So in America, I feel like that is one thing that's missing from Judaism, which is like very strange. That's sort of like why I had to start writing. And like, I had so many questions about it, because it's so different from the Judaism I experienced as somebody who's Israeli. And then in Israel, I feel like, number one, Israel is so hard to live in compared with America. Regular people are having a hard time just having a family. It's a great society, but it's really expensive, right? And I feel like that sort of like creates like people are just like not as united. I don’t really know what the root issue is, but it feels like people are just not as united. Maybe it’s that, at this point, the war has been going on for almost three years and people are really tired. But before then, people were really not united. I also don’t understand the road rage that’s happening in Israel. Is it the road rage, or is it that people’s lives are just really hard right now? There are so many things I’m wondering about. How could this be such a huge problem in a society that has a culture that unites them? So, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know about the issue. Seth • 24:43 Yeah. No, it’s very good. Besides an October 7th, what do we have among us that unites us? What could we have? I mean, we all have to. Tali • 24:58 Join the military. I do think that’s one of the things that allows people to unite and see people they may not see in their neighborhoods. People from the Ethiopian community, the Yemenite community, and the Moroccans can all be together in one place and work toward something. Seth • 25:19 What about in the U. S.? Tali • 25:21 In the U. S. As Jews? Seth • 25:24 Why did you post that, by the way? What made you say that. Tali • 25:27 If your mom’s not? Oh, it was a unifying message. Like I said that. And then I said, like we're one tribe. I don't remember exactly what I said, but it was like very unifying. It actually was like the post that I got, I received the most amount of followers. I think I got like 9,000 followers from just that one post. So people were either really mad about the first five seconds or really enjoyed the full video. It was like a unifying message of like, we're one people, one tribe it was meant to unify but i didn't realize that i was saying something that was like very different than a lot of people thought i think people still. Lio • 26:22 I think people still feel that being united means agreeing on everything, that you have to share the same opinions. And we know for a fact that’s not the definition of being united. The people of Israel are 12 tribes. We're never meant to be one mass. Even though we're treated as one mass, one group, we're actually 12 tribes, very different tribes. Every tribe has a unique quality, unique characteristic. It's not simply that they have different color tones, right? It's really psychologically different, the temperament, the value sets, but they're all united around this one quality. So you call it Hashem, but Seth and I kind of dig a little deeper, and when you read the writings of the sages, they talk about the creator as the quality of love and bestowal. It's like a force that has only this one direction. Just like, if you can imagine the sun, right? The sun just shines, on everyone. The good, the bad, atrocities, celebrations, the sun is there. It doesn't matter. It's almost like it doesn't care, but it's not the right way to look at it. It cares by only emitting sunlight, right? And only being there. And if you don't relate to it correctly, it can also harm you and kill you, right? It can dehydrate you, burn you, give you skin cancer, whatever. But if you relate to it correctly, you You can work with it. You can derive energy from it, right? It's just a matter of how do you relate to that force that's just emanating in one direction. And the creator is the same thing, except it's even higher than the sun. It's really just a force of love, a force that wants to kind of bring everyone to a place where they share some qualities with that same force. That's really what we saw. Everybody says about what it means to be a Jew. Jew from the word Yehud, unity. That's the essence of that. And just before we started talking, I read something to Seth. I'm going to try and find it. It'll take me a second. But when the sages talk about it, it's not clear because people are very possessive about the way they relate to the creator and they relate to the text and all that. It's very hard for them to find that higher quality that can be the unifying factor. So how do you think we can bring people a little closer to that? Tali • 29:22 I don't know. I think it's sort of, I feel like people need to be curious. It's not sort of like for us to, give to people or tell people what to do or what to read. It's sort of like if you don't have that curiosity or that desire to seek something that is higher or like, I guess it's just not for some people is just like not very realistic or. Are you in your 20s? No, I'm 35. Seth • 29:57 You’re 35? So do you see your generation having some spiritual desire? Like I'd say in America. Tali • 30:15 I mean, I sort of like my friends, are sort of aligned with where I'm at. So I don't know if I'm a good person to ask because I feel like I just sort of stick to like-minded people at this point. Seth • 30:35 You find that people are asking questions like, what the hell is going on? Why are we alive? What is the meaning of all this? Or it's mostly much more surface level. Lio • 30:47 Why is the world in such a mess? Why, when it seems like we have all the technology, all the tools to live a wonderful life, do we seem to go in the other direction? The cheap thing is. Seth • 31:03 Just to blame Trump, blame Bibi, blame Elon. It’s a cheap answer. You’re not asking a real question if that’s your response. And I'm wondering, like, are people, cause I don't see that older people are asking. I mean, even older than we're in our late forties, early fifties. I don't see that people older than us are really asking those questions. I don't see that many people in our generation are asking those questions. You would be younger than us. And I'm wondering if you see people in your generation asking those questions? Like, because if we do it, go ahead. Tali • 31:47 We do ask those questions, but it's sort of like, when I think about it in terms of America, I've had these conversations and I always think about like what my, I wanted to like drop out of college. I remember at one point my dad looked at me and said, 'No, first of all, no.' But he also said, 'You don't have any problems. You're creating problems for yourself.' And I think that's where we've gotten as a society. We have everything our hearts desire at our fingertips. You can come to America and be whoever you want to be. You have so much opportunity. And I think because people don’t have real problems, they’re just seeking out problems, looking for the bad in everything. People are going to get—that’s going to. Lio • 32:33 People are going to start having problems very soon, with the growing Muslim population. I think... Tali • 32:40 That's for a fact, yeah. I'm glad that I have somewhere to go. Lio • 32:47 You can come now. I'm in Israel. There's plenty of room. Seth • 32:51 The Israelis have a problem with Muslims too. Lio • 32:54 No, not so much. I mean, yes, but it's a different situation. Seth • 33:01 You have an army. You've been around forever. Tali • 33:03 I feel like we have it contained. We know what’s coming our way, at least. Seth • 33:10 Right, you’re not so oblivious to the problem. But what you brought up is really important, because what is the purpose of a human? Is our purpose just to be in a field, to live like subsistence cavemen, taking whatever we can get from the field that day? That's our life and that's our problem; if a lion eats us, that's the end? Is our life then just to sit at our jobs all day? Is that the purpose of our life? So if we don't need to be in the field all day and we don't need to be in the office all day, then what the hell, right? Then you said, like your dad said, like, you don't have any problems. Like, like think, like, so then what, and especially when the robots start coming out doing more and more of the manual labor, like, and prices go down on everything. So, and everyone has internet, like what is left? That's a huge problem for people, because they define themselves by their jobs. Or they didn't even have time to define themselves, because as soon as they got out of the field, or the coal mine, or the factory, or whatever the hell they were doing, the sun went down and they went to sleep. Now that these things aren’t a problem, and we have time to think and feel, if nothing fills that void, if no kind of purpose. Tali • 34:34 Fills that void, then we have a crisis. People also aren’t having kids or families. So that’s another lack of purpose. If you don’t have a purpose within your job or the way you live your life, and now you don’t. Seth • 34:52 Animals have to be in a lot of distress in order not to try to procreate. It’s built into the system that animals try to procreate. So if we have this thing. Tali • 35:05 What do you think it is? That’s so interesting. These are interesting questions, because then it brings up all these things. We've read that like now people are having also less. So it’s like, if we are like animals, why is it that we are in so much distress that people are not having families, not having sex? Like, what is this distress that people are under if life is just so easy? Is it technology? Seth • 35:36 That's a question. It's not technology. Lio • 35:41 It's not technology, by the way. Seth • 35:43 Let it simmer for a minute. Lio • 35:45 I’m not going to give an answer. I just wanted to make sure that we don't go down the technology route because it's not technology but what is it then? Tali • 35:57 Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know what it would be. Maybe it’s— Lio • 36:05 I’ll say, on the flip side of that, I’m looking at people who do get up in the morning and they get all excited about putting on a keffiyeh for some reason and then yelling against the Jews, that gives them purpose. It gives them vibrancy. They're part of something big and strong, powerful. Seth • 36:24 Righteous. Lio • 36:25 Righteous. And they feel vindicated and they feel, well, righteous on the right side of history and then doing the right thing and they're fighting for the underdog, whatever. Like, it just, it actually, in a twisted way, it kind of proves the point That at the end of the day, people thrive on feeling part of something great and feeling that their lives have a meaning. Not that they have a material substance in their lives, but that there's an inner meaning to what they're doing. And it doesn't really matter to them if that meaning is couched in what we call factual truth or not, which is why this whole, again, not to downplay what you're doing because it is important. Information, truth is still important. But it also shows us that it wasn't in and of itself the key to solving the problem. Because the people who have found this sense of livelihood and meaning in the pro-Palestinian side of things, let's call it, they don't care. They feel good. They don't need you to kill their buzz with some facts and truth. Because that's not what they're after. They're not looking for, they're not interested in human rights and racism. They're not into that. They're into the feeling of being part of this something. And so what we're saying is we need to create this counterweight to that. We need to bring our own big meaning that's greater, bigger than life and everything that we do in it. Something above it, something beyond it. And the beautiful part is that, if you read the holy books that the sages left for us and find a teacher who can show you what’s written behind the words, you see there’s a wealth of wisdom there. It’s almost like an infinite treasure room. You open the door and just like section after section of more valuable things and priceless treasures. And I think most people just are not aware that this even exists. Tali • 39:03 Yeah. I mean, I'd love to get a list of those books. Lio • 39:11 I wanted to read this quote. It's from Baal HaSulam, Yehuda Ashlag. He was one of those sages. He was a Kabbalist. And he wrote in 1933. He already saw that the Holocaust is coming. He tried to warn the people in Poland. He was a judge, a rabbi, a judge in Warsaw. He tried to warn everyone around him to leave, to move to Israel because of what was happening. And they mocked him, they excommunicated him, and eventually they all went to the camps and died. Basically, he was one of the few that survived. And so in 1933, he wrote an article about Arvut, the mutual guarantee, right? Arvut, that word, which was the condition for receiving the Torah, the condition for leaving Egypt, the condition for receiving the Torah. And he wrote there: “The Israeli nation had been constructed as a sort of a passageway by which sparks of refinement would flow onto the entire human race throughout the world until they develop to such an extent that they can understand the pleasantness and tranquility that are found in the kernel of love of others.” What is he saying? That we have a role in the system. We sometimes talk about the world as a pyramid, right? Every system in nature is built like this. It’s not that one part is more important than another; there are roles for every layer in the pyramid. And at the top of the pyramid, it’s like a faucet, right? And if that faucet doesn't open and let everything flow, then everything below that doesn't receive what it needs, right? That’s the picture. So the nation of Israel is that. Israel is also an anagram of Li Rosh. Like it's a head. It's simply in the... If humanity was like a human body, then you need a head to start to do other things. Otherwise, you're just like another animal. So in order to evolve in that direction where you can actually relate to others, because at the end of the day, if you think about what separates us from animals, it's that ability to relate to another, to really feel what the other feels. That empathy, that's the thing. Everything else, we're like animals. And in some respect, animals are better than us. They have an intuitive feeling of the system, of their place in the system. They don't take more than they need. They give what is needed. They live in harmony unless you bring a human into the equation. Then everything gets out of whack. But if you take the human out, and we saw even during COVID, right, when humanity just kind of withdrew to their homes for a couple of years, nature was just thriving. Tali • 42:36 Yeah. Lio • 42:37 Overflowing vegetation, animals. I was here in Israel. There were jackals walking the streets and all kinds of wildlife. Everything was thriving. So the problem is not with nature. The problem is us. And it’s not even us so much as the way we conduct ourselves as people. We don’t really exercise that quality; we almost ignore or conceal from ourselves that I can relate to another, that I can feel another. So I think what we’re saying here—and I’ll pass it to you to riff on that—is that this is the thing we need to be doing: exercising more of that between us, because that’s where humanity needs to go. That’s the counterweight needed right now. Tali • 43:32 Between us or the greater world? Between us, first of all? Yeah, between us. That’s interesting, because I already feel like we do that. And I feel like people outside the Jewish world tell us that we do that as well. You have me thinking, though. I mean, it’s not hard to imagine what’s happening right now to Jews in this country. I will say, sometimes I feel social media makes it a lot worse than it is. We’ve always been hated by the world, and sometimes I want to pretend it’s a trend that will be fleeting, sort of like how everybody was pro-Black and posting black squares in 2020, with George Floyd and all that. People are [unclear] very quickly. It was sort of like a show. Lio • 44:44 Well, because it’s artificial. It’s not the thing itself that’s needed. And this is a great example. We were there when BLM was thriving, becoming the hottest thing at the time. And then you peel off the mask, and you see the organizers of BLM are just hypocrites, and people just like money. So what are we seeing? We’re seeing that human nature itself is the stick in the wheels of humanity. Nothing else. There’s nothing else we can blame. We’d like to, as Seth said. Blaming someone is a cheap trick. But we are our own worst enemy. Seth • 45:35 But I also don’t buy the thing where people say, ‘God told the Jews to do this, and the Jews disobeyed. They disobeyed so many times, and that’s why they’re always being punished,’ or something like that. You’re taking a monkey and trying to elevate him to godliness, and it’s a long, messy process. It’s not like—so you said, Tali, ‘I feel like we are doing that.’ And it’s true: we Jews give so much charity. Every time there’s a disaster, Jews are there. But we’re taking a savage creature, meaning human beings who were animals 200,000 years ago, and we’re developing toward a state where nation will not lift sword against nation. It will be a brotherhood of man. We’ll all be at the level of the Creator together, and no one will teach war anymore. That’s the role of the Jew: to bring all humanity there. And I agree with you that we are doing it, maybe more than anyone else. But I think what the system requires of us is even ten times more than we’re doing now. We’re still using a flip phone, and there’s Claude and ChatGPT and all this available. There’s so much money in the world, so much food, so much medicine, so much land, so much water. We should be able to organize. Just as Jews, we should get our shit together and organize this planet so that everyone can have everything they need. And maybe you can help. You’ve got a bunch of followers, and we can start organizing. I can talk about it all day, but we need some people to help us organize. Lio • 47:41 Well, just to be clear, I mean, before we got on the show, we were talking and Seth asks me every time before every show, like, what do we want out of this show? Why are we having this podcast? And I'm sure when you go to your thing and I asked at the very, very beginning, he said, I want to share the truth and I want to give people a safe space, right? So that's what you want to do. So we want that too. We like that. That feels good to us, but we also want more. We want purpose; we want to reach our purpose. We refused, way back, to just say, 'Oh, it's a cycle. They hate us now, but give it 10 or 20 years, everything will calm down, and we'll all be friends.' Seth • 48:32 God forbid something could happen in America again. I think that’s what you were hinting at before. Tali • 48:38 So, yeah, I’m going to Israel. If something happens here, I have somewhere to go. Yeah, yeah, but we can. Lio • 48:44 See that the intensity of these events—it is a cycle, but the intensity is growing and the scope is growing. It used to be that war would be here, and then here, and then here. Even during the world wars, it was a big part of the world, but not the whole world. But now it seems like the whole world is embroiled in something. Even since COVID, suddenly the whole world was engaged in one big challenge. It was like one big challenge for humanity. And now again, here we are now, and now there's all these armed conflicts around the world. And everyone seems to be involved in some form of armed conflict, one place or another. And if it's not the armed conflicts, it's the drugs. If it's not that, it's the economy, and it’s the migrants and religious wars. It seems like we have to get to the root of all these things if we want to solve it. We have to ask ourselves, where are we in it? And what we claim is that while Jews are very good at displaying this quality of unity, of mutual guarantee, when things get really, really tough, like after October 7th, but it takes an October 7th or a Holocaust or some big-ass pogrom to bring this together, and we don't want that. We want to exercise that before that happens, when it seems like everything is fine, I can go back to taking care of myself. That's the thing that is still not corrected. We're still very much selfish creatures. We care about ourselves. Then we care maybe about our close relatives. And maybe Jews have a greater capacity to hold a greater circle of people around them that they care for. But we're still, even among Jews, we're not displaying that sense of unconditional love. We're still, I mean, when's the last time you've been to Israel? Tali • 50:58 I was there in January. Okay. Lio • 51:01 Have you driven? Yeah, I hate driving in Israel. Right, exactly. Why does it feel like war? You get on the road—oh my God. Why is that? This is not how you'd drive if you knew everybody around you as family: 'Hey, that's my son, that's my daughter, that's his sister, that's the uncle.' You'd be more like, 'Okay, all right, cool.' People still drive as if they're going to—it feels like a— Tali • 51:30 I know. Lio • 51:30 [Unclear]. Tali • 51:32 It's not even just the driving. It's like everything in Israel. I always tell people, when I'm in Israel, I have to be on defense. I don't want to be freier, like, anywhere. What I mean? Like, you're trying to, like, not be. Lio • 51:45 Exactly. Tali • 51:45 You’re trying not to be taken advantage of. You have to come in and—I can’t. In America, there's lines. You stand in line, everybody stands in order. Lio • 51:55 Exactly. Tali • 51:55 In Israel, you have to think, “I’m going to be in line, and I’m going to hold my place here.” And I have to just like be on the defense. I'm like, it's such a, it's like, I'm a different person in Israel versus who I am. Lio • 52:07 But that's exactly the thing. The only reason why it, you feel, America still feels under control is because again, the ego is still growing and there's still enough space to feel like, we can keep to ourselves and minimize the friction when we're in public. But even that is, you feel that even that is being eroded right now. Seth • 52:28 But hold on, Tali mentioned also, and we know with the Jewish people also, there's so much brotherhood. There's so much connection. No question. Everyone's your family in Israel, even though there's all this. Lio • 52:40 No question. You have those, that's the point. You have those sparks, but they don't last. We're trying to make a fire here, Seth and I. Sparks are good. Tali • 52:48 I will say this: comparing America and Israel, in Israel, if somebody falls, you have five people coming to pick you up. One person asking you, do you need water? You're getting up on your feet if something happens to you. In America, you fall, somebody's like five feet away from you. “Are you okay?” You know you know what I mean? It's so different that I do feel like we care about each other. But it's like, and I do, I don't know, I feel like we care about each other. And I always think about like the sad parts where, if somebody dies and people need to show up for the burial, it's like people are going to show up in Israel. You know you know what I mean? Just say the word, a hundred people will show up for you. So like, I do feel like we're show, we do show up for each other. But I guess my question is, how do you want people to show up in happy times? You know you know what I mean? Or like in times that are not necessarily like high. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Seth • 53:50 That's the whole question. Like we can do it after October 7th, but can we do it like proactively? That's the whole game that we're trying to figure out. Tali • 54:01 In what ways, I guess? Well— Seth • 54:04 Okay. Exactly how it’s going to go down is not clear. Because once we join, like we didn't know you yesterday, but you have a whole flavor and probably a whole circle of friends. So if we connect to you and then another one connects, like what the result is when we all get together and what we can create together, it's still unknown. It's going to be something so beautiful and wonderful because it's going to contain all these flavors. So we don't really know what it's going to look like yet because it's like a child that will be born, of like some new kind of creation that will come when we all do it. The main thing where I think Lio maybe helped me clarify this. I think the main thing for us is to clarify a big enough goal that we can all aim towards. That's vague enough that like we all can hold onto something. Once you start saying, you have to dress like this or act like this, then, then you start losing people. There has to be a goal that's big enough for all Jews to be able to somehow grab hold of it and move towards it and then circle by circle like small circle and then a bigger circle, a bigger circle we start organizing ourselves and creating events or— Lio • 55:26 I think also—I don’t want it to sound like everybody should be at some desert party somewhere. It’s fun, and that’s good. But I think what’s needed is education, first of all. You said yourself, and we’ve had many guests echo a similar sentiment, that people need to ask deeper questions. Seth • 55:53 Not assume things—not math. We’re not talking about math education, right? Lio • 55:58 Don’t assume that stuff happens just because it happens. No, you live in a closed system with laws, and everything is moving in a certain direction. Everything has a goal and a purpose. Nature is not random. It’s only random when you don’t understand what’s happening. Before they found the microscope, people got sick—and then, oh, there’s bacteria, right? There’s always a reason for things. There are things you may not be able to see right now, but you’ll see later. So education, I think, is the first thing we have to invest in collectively. We have to say we need to learn more about who we are, our place in the system, how we fit in, and whether we’re fulfilling the purpose for which we were brought together. In a way, it doesn’t matter whether you believe in Hashem or not. It doesn’t matter one bit. You can call it the command, the mitzvah of gravity, or the law of gravity. It doesn’t matter: if you break it, you hurt yourself. We made these divisions. They’re artificial. As Rav Kook said, science and religion are simply two sides of the same coin. We just don’t understand how they relate, but there are many clues. We have to first want to learn this. So I would argue the first thing we want to do is invite everyone to study. Go a little deeper into what it means to be a Jew, first of all. I think that has to start there. And then from there, I believe that we will start to receive the guidance that we're looking for. It's not like we know, Seth and I, we have all the answers. We know if you pressed us, we will tell you what needs to happen. You need to be in groups and work together and work on your feelings toward one another and how to relate to others when you disagree with them. And when they evoke certain negative feelings in you, how do you cover that with love? All those things, but they require first a desire to become more of a human and less an animal. The Hebrew word Adam is from the word domeh, similar to the Creator. We're called this word Adam because we're called for the future state that we're going to reach, when we resemble that quality of love and bestowal. Seth • 58:45 So who are the people that you, who are the people that, that you find are interested in your content the most, like the most actively interested in what you're doing? In the U S. Lio • 59:11 That's us. Seth • 59:14 Republicans, Democrats, doesn't matter. What kind of reaction do you get when you post Israel content, like pro-Israel content? Like when you post an IDF picture, do people say baby killer? Tali • 59:41 Yeah, people say, “Baby killer.” Like, also people are like, a lot of people are like, “The white Jews don’t like you. The white Jews don’t accept you in Israel.” So it's like things like that. People are racist. But yeah, I just don't even, I don't even pay attention to that. Seth • 59:59 So it’s mostly me and Lio. Forty, like— Tali • 01:00:04 Forty-five and up is like. Seth • 01:00:05 More conservative, 45 and up. Okay. Tali • 01:00:08 Yeah. Seth • 01:00:09 And is there something they want, that they’re looking for? Are they trying to be part of the tribe? Are they, are they like, what are they searching for? What are they, what are they looking for from you? Tali • 01:00:29 I mean, I, whenever I post things, people are just really grateful. They're really thankful for me posting information. I posted a video that I said, like, wearing a Star of David is not a political statement. Your visibility helps other Jews be visible and not feel alone. And I got so many messages of like, what, like I took out my Star of David from my box and I wore it today and you're making me feel really empowered. So like, I love those types of messages. And that's mainly what I get is like people that are just so grateful for my content. Lio • 01:01:15 Give me, look into the future, the near future, not when the machines rise and, just something, just the near future. What is your vision for the Jews in the near future? Can you? Tali • 01:01:32 For the Jews, the whole of the Jews. I mean, I hope that we all make it to Israel. I really hope American Jews get closer to Israel so they can—it's just such, obviously, when you live in Israel—I really hope that people learn Hebrew. That would be amazing. So then we have like one language that really unifies us. I don't know. I just hope, I hope that they get just closer to Israel and closer to their Judaism, but like in, in a deeper level than just like I eat latkes on Hanukkah. You know what I mean? Like that's sort of, cause that's sort of like what I've realized is, is American Judaism is very much traditional and it's sort of, it's just very like surface level. And I'm like, oh, there's so much that you can discover, and just come to Israel, honestly, and you'll discover so much more. So I hope that, young people take the Birthright trips so then it could be, your first step. For Jews in Israel, I just want to say relax. I don't know what else to say. Israel is exhausting. And I think that's why I don't live there right now. Cause I just know it's like, you sort of have like to flip a switch to become a different person. Once you're over there, I have to be like, I mean, everybody has sort of like a different personality and they start speaking a different language. I feel like when I speak Hebrew, I'm just like a different, more aggressive sort of like person. Lio • 01:03:16 I will say this: being all you can be means allowing all those desires in you, all those forces, to work, except you have a way of working with them. It’s like wielding a lot of power. You were in the army—were you in Givati, I think? Tali • 01:03:52 Right. I just went shooting last month, so I get you. But I had a gun for three months when I was in the military. Oh, okay. Lio • 01:04:05 So it doesn’t have to be a gun metaphor, but a really big gun, where you feel you have to rein it in—or a fire hose, with the water. You don’t want to bottle those things. It’s not about being less of who you are. It’s about having all those qualities in you, but learning how to work with the qualities of others just as well. There’s greatness that can happen. And you saw it—I saw it here in Israel during the war. Whenever things get tough, you see that resourcefulness and care. It’s like a beehive that’s working, and you’re part of it. It’s like a huge soccer match, and everybody just goes together. Everybody’s ready to work. Tali • 01:05:06 And like do something like it doesn't matter from the smallest things to the biggest. Lio • 01:05:11 Things. There’s always someone ready. That’s good. And when you’re in it, nobody cares about political correctness and this and that. All those things fade; they fall off. They only exist because we’re busy with the wrong things. So, anyway, I get excited about those things. Well, I have a quote for you here. We give our guests a quote to read. This is from Likutei Halachot. It's about the mutual guarantee. You can maybe do us the honor of reading it for everyone. No, Likutei Halachot is actually not him. It's it is related to the Breslov tradition, but I don’t know if it’s from him. Anyway. Tali • 01:06:29 The essence of the root, Arvut, is extended from the reception of the Torah when all of Israel were responsible for one another. And this is because at the root, the soul of Israel all are considered as one because they are extended from the source of unity. So, what you're trying to tell me is that the same rabbi that was in Warsaw was sort of having these same conversations that we're having right now. Lio • 01:07:03 Not only having them, he wrote extensively about them. And he was willing to talk to anyone. He spoke to Ben-Gurion at the time. He said, “There’s an opportunity. We can create a spiritual country.” And Ben-Gurion was like, “Yeah, yeah.” But even Ben-Gurion himself gave up, went to the Negev at some point. He couldn't handle the crazy friction. But there is no other way. If you trace our roots, you'll see that there is no other way. That's the only reason we exist. We have to show the world how it's done. Seth • 01:07:38 Until we unify as brothers and sisters, the problems will never go away. Lio • 01:07:46 Yeah, no amount of explanation and litigation. Seth • 01:07:52 No, it’s good also. Lio • 01:07:54 Yeah, it’s fine. We need big guns, but that in itself is not going to solve the problem. It’s only going to keep the barbarians at the gate, but we have to— Tali • 01:08:03 That’s interesting. This reminds me of a book I read a long time ago, called A Return to Love by Marianne Williamson. In that book, all it talks about is how everything, it's not a Jewish book or anything, but it was sort of like telling you that you should, everything that you do, regardless of what you're doing should come from love. It was very interesting, because at the time I applied it to my life and thought, “Wow, everything’s so much better.”. Lio • 01:08:44 Yeah, but do it with people who also want to do that. Start with that. And when we say the Jews, it’s good to put an asterisk here, because it’s not just the Jews who have an Israeli passport or a Jewish birth certificate. Not just that. There are other people who have the same desire, and they’re also part of this nation. We will see it; it will be revealed. We just have to find those people, those who are curious, who ask the questions, and bring them to the table. That’s how we do it. And we’re counting on you to— Seth • 01:09:29 Unite the Jews. Tali • 01:09:31 I’ll be a part of it. Lio • 01:09:32 Yeah, thank you so much. This was a very relaxing conversation, I think. Seth • 01:09:43 Girl, everything is calm. What’s the problem? I know, sunny outside, no problems. It’s actually kind of— Tali • 01:09:50 Gloomy, but yes. West Coast. It looks very calm. No, no, we know. And nevertheless— Lio • 01:09:59 I had a great time meeting you. You definitely have this great vibe to you. Keep it. We need more of that. Definitely more than the chill Jew. It’s good, right? I think it’s— Tali • 01:10:14 Because I don’t debate with people. I think that’s why I’m chill. I don’t—okay. Lio • 01:10:19 No, there’s room for that. Again, if we’re trying to clarify the best way to come together, how to be more loving, yeah, we can argue about that anytime. No, of course, I think— Tali • 01:10:32 It’s different. You can argue ideas and have conversations, but I meant debating the other side, the hateful side. I just cannot. No, there’s no need. That’s a waste of time. Yeah, so— Lio • 01:10:45 Where should people go to follow you? Is your Instagram the best place? Tali • 01:10:52 Yeah, Instagram. I’m everywhere, as Tali Aynalem. Lio • 01:10:59 She’s everywhere. Follow her for good vibes. We are TheJewFunction. We invite everyone to listen to the first 22 episodes on Spotify or YouTube, because they will explain everything. Follow us, like, comment, and share, because more people deserve to hear this conversation and all the others. We’ll see you here next time.