The Untold Holocaust (Mystery Book Revealed)

Lio: So the book we've been reading from throughout these 22 episodes is "Jewish Choice, Unity or Antisemitism? Historical facts on antisemitism as a reflection of Jewish social discord" by Michael Lightman PhD. It's quite a title with a very dramatic image on the cover—a coin with the Star of David on one side and a swastika on the other. Chaim, how did you find that particular image?

Chaim: That image is indeed very striking. Throughout my research and collaboration with Dr. Lightman, we discovered numerous historical artifacts, and this coin particularly stood out as a profound symbol of the complex relationship between Jews and external forces throughout history. It captures the essence of conflict and interdependence, illustrating the recurrent themes in our history.

Seth: It's incredible because that moment when the Nazis were actually trying to move Jews out of Europe opened our eyes to a part of history that's not widely discussed. Growing up, I had this view of Jews as perpetual victims, like the Woody Allen character—downtrodden and hated for reasons unknown. But this book connected dots and filled so many gaps in my understanding. The story of Nazis visiting Israel was particularly eye-opening.

Lio: Exactly, Seth. This book isn’t just about recounting history; it challenges the narrative and provides new insights. It sort of reshapes our understanding of identity and social dynamics. And Chaim, having worked so closely on this, can you share the process of bringing these hidden stories and truths to light?

Chaim: Absolutely. The process was very analytical and iterative. Working with Dr. Lightman, we went deep into historical documents, revisiting well-known events with fresh perspectives, and uncovering less-known facts like the coin. We focused on narratives that highlight Jewish social dynamics and internal struggles, aiming to provide a broader lens on antisemitism and unity.

Lio: That's profound. The book is available on Amazon and other retailers, and you can find links in our show notes. It's well worth a read for anyone interested in understanding the intricate layers of our past and its impacts on our present. Thanks, Chaim, for giving us more context on this remarkable work.

Chaim: Well, I first saw it. There was a story on Israeli TV about this German guy who befriended a Jewish family and came over here. He traveled Israel, Palestine at the time, and it shocked a lot of people. They showed it in the film. It shocked a lot of people. So I went in to check on it to see what this was about. I was already working on the book. And the thing is, you realize many things when you read the book. So as I was working on it, I came across so many astounding things. One of them, for example, was how the Nazi regime related to Zionism and how it related to Jews. It made a distinct difference in how it related to Jews versus Zionists. Jews were those who wanted to stay in Germany. Zionists were Jews who wanted to immigrate to Israel and build a Jewish state in Palestine. The Nazis supported Zionists, not only because they wanted to get rid of the Jews, but because they saw it as the vocation of the Jewish people. They wrote it explicitly on the front pages of their papers. There's one article quoted in the book where they divide the article into two parts. The first part talks about Zionists and how the Nazi government would help them in any way they can to immigrate to Israel and establish a Jewish state. They said it would be good for the Jews and good for the world. But at the same time in the same article, they warned the Jews who wanted to stay in Germany that they would do everything to ensure there would be no Jews in Germany. They warned them in advance. Even if you served in the German army during World War I, or your parents did, it wouldn't help you. You don't belong here. Go to Palestine and start a Jewish state there, and they would support you 100 percent. They paid for Zionist organizations, supported them financially, gave free courses to Jews on professions required in Palestine, like land cultivation and industry. They had the transfer agreement.

Lio: Where

Chaim: you were allowed to transfer funds from Germany to Palestine. In those days, you couldn't take out any money from Germany to any other country because of German economic problems, except for Palestine. If you were a Jew wanting to immigrate there. In the infamous Nuremberg Law, the ones we always quote about antisemitism, they specify in item four that no one is allowed to wave any flag outside the Nazi flag. This was the only flag permitted within Germany and Austria, except for the Jewish flag, the Star of David, the flag of Israel. Jews were permitted to wave that flag and wear their own uniforms of the Zionist movements. They taught Hebrew. I'll tell you more than that. Mildenstein, the guy who traveled Israel and eventually wrote all the stories and they had the coin minted afterward, he had this deputy, a fellow Austrian. He thought, you know, he tried to help him into the ranks of the SS and the Nazi government. He took in his friend and helped him in. He taught him all about the Jews and the importance of the Jews. This guy became fascinated with Jews. He learned Hebrew. He traveled to Israel, and along with Mildenstein, attended the 19th and 20th Zionist Congress as official delegations of the Nazi government supporting Zionism. You know what this guy's name is?

Lio: Eichmann.

Chaim: Adolf Eichmann.

Lio: Sorry, I read

Seth: the book.

Chaim: Yeah. They sound

Seth: like lovely people. They flipped.

Chaim: Once they saw that Jews were not willing to immigrate to Israel, they flipped.

Seth: You know, if you came today and said, if, and I know that there's some kind of Harry Potter world and you say, you know, you can come to this place, and this is where you belong. Imagine you came to America and said to Latinos or to Indian people, listen, I'm willing to move you, Indian people in America, right from India. Just pick any random group. Listen, you are special, and you have a special role in humanity, and I'm willing to deport you all and you can take all your stuff with you, and I'll make it easy for you. And if not, it's not going to be good for you. We would say that's nuts. So when we look back now, it's like, oh, well, the Nazis were so generous. I mean, why didn't the Jews just listen? But if you were there, it's that's again, you have a lot of cognitive dissonance, and emotionally it doesn't sit well now in retrospect. The Nazis sound like great people. They really wanted to help the Jews out, you know, they wanted to let them move their money, let them have their flag, they were the only ones who could keep their clothing, their uniforms. In retrospect, it kind of looks like that at the time. Like if it were to happen today, it's nuts. You're coming into my country where I have a business, where I have a family, living in my society with my community. You're telling me, get out and you'll help me get out. And if not, it's going to be very bad. In retrospect, there's one kind of like, wow, we could have diverted this whole disaster.

Chaim: It's always like that. Every disaster the Jews have ever had has always been the same story. It sounds nuts in present tense, but in past tense, we always go, how come we didn't see it? How come we didn't see it coming? It never makes sense, but I'll tell you one thing, to make this book which talks about not just the Holocaust—the Holocaust is just the latest incident, the worst, of course, but it's also the latest. It's been the same pattern since the very, very beginning, since the first days of the Jews in Egypt, even before they went out of Egypt. The same story happens. Jews, it's not only like you said that people tell them, you know, you guys are special, you have some special task in the world. Jews themselves feel they have a special task in the world, and the whole world feels they are different anyway, at least different. So when the pressure grows on them, it never makes sense. They never get the hint while they still can, and they always get beat up every single time. Since the ruin of the second temple 2,000 years ago, they’ve been expelled, banned, and banished more than 800 times from that many places.

Seth: There's something I would like to challenge to that because it makes sense, and you can see it historically, but there's something you said that strikes a nerve for half the Jews or whatever the percentage is who feel they have some special role.

Chaim: And what other nation has this term Tikkun Olam?

Seth: I don't know. I don't know what all the nations have,

Chaim: but,

Seth: But there is a feeling among Jews, and we saw this with the Jews in America. I think it's in the same chapter about this, when they wanted to send the Jews, after St. Louis was turned away. The Jews in America, well, the Jewish leaders like Rabbi Wise, they didn't want Jews to come to America. They didn't want those kinds of Jews, meaning religious Jews, settling here. In fact, they wanted it seems—they weren't

Chaim: even religious. They were German Jews. They were reformed Jews, just like Wise himself. They were the same; reformed Judaism started in Germany. They were the same type of Judaism as Rabbi Wise himself, except they were Jewish refugees from Europe. He was afraid that if Jewish refugees came to America from Europe, it would increase antisemitism in the U.S., and that's why he didn't want them.

Seth: Okay, so my, which is another point, but the question is, I'm not sure that every Jew feels there's something special about them. It seems there's another strain within the Jews that want to be accepted and be like everyone else.

Lio: Yeah. Who doesn't want to be like everyone else? Come on. It's good to stand out, but at the end of the day, you want to know you have a place.

Seth: Chaim, I'm challenging what you said. You mentioned Jews feeling chosen, having a unique role, a sense inside them. But there's another strain within Jews that historically happens, and we read it here—they mingle with the Roman government or the Spanish government.

Chaim: The same was true for German Jews. They wanted to be Germans. They didn't consider themselves Jewish. They were Germans of the Moses faith, something like that. Their capital was Berlin; their hopes were Berlin was to them the new Jerusalem, just as in Spain. Catalonia, or whatever it was then, was for them, the new Jerusalem.

Seth: And today in America?

Chaim: Well, ask the Jews in America.

Lio: New York or Los Angeles, as we heard from one of our interviewees. He talks about the Golden Medina.

Chaim: No, but definitely American Jews see Washington, D.C., as their capital. Absolutely.

Lio: The irony is, by the way, the irony is when the Nazis started to round up the Jews, every Jewish person they gathered, regardless of their name, they called all the male Jews Israel, all the female Sarah, all the males Israel. So it was interesting—like a final reminder. They could have called him Chaim or something, but no, Israel. The irony is not lost.

Chaim: Maybe it's not pleasant, you know, but either we remember it or we'll be reminded of it. That's the pleasant part.

Lio: Huh? This podcast is all about being pleasant. That's why people tune in. I can't wait for the morbid part. So, uh, I'm thinking, let's do a little, uh, jump into the book for a second, just to give people context. Because in the last episode, we kind of stayed out of the book, and the one before it was about the rise of Hitler and the socialist, national socialist party. Now we are coming to the how, as we read this, is the eve of the Holocaust. One of the first clues about the relationship between the American Jews and the Jews in Germany was this Evian Conference, which happened in 1938. And then five years later, the Bermuda one. So both hugely successful conferences, which accomplished nothing except probably a great vacation for everyone involved. But I think it was a sign of the kind of relationship. Just so everybody understands, we don't have time to read all of it. The book is full of little vignettes of everything happening while the war machine was rolling. There was this other kind of silent Holocaust, as we said, the untold Holocaust happening in the background. All these missed opportunities we saw. Like, ah, there was a way to just pivot out of here. Nah, we missed that. And then we missed that. It's heart-wrenching to read about it because you're watching this protagonist in a movie, and he keeps making all the wrong choices. It's like you're watching a horror movie. He's like, no, don't go in that room. No, don't go in

Seth: the shower. What do you do? I'm in America today. Do you say the same thing? Do you say the same thing now? It's like, oh, didn't he see? Can he see? Wait,

Lio: Wait, so hold on. Hold that question because this is going to keep coming back to us. I asked you and Chaim, and myself, we all picked one story, one vignette from those things. And many more are in the book, of course. So Chaim, you picked something that speaks about the Evian Conference, right? You want to tell us, want to read a little excerpt and tell us what was interesting to you about that?

Chaim: I think the excerpt speaks for itself. The idea was to show that it's not just the Nazis who hated Jews. We could have escaped to other places, but we realized how much support the world gave to the Nazis concerning antisemitism. If we understood how much the world didn't want us, maybe we would think more about what we as Jews can do for ourselves. It's in our hands to stick together and find our strength instead of trying to please others. Let me read the excerpt. The United States convened a conference in Evian, France, in the summer of 1938 to determine how to help German and Austrian Jews escape from the Nazis and save their lives. 32 countries attended, mostly Western countries, but apart from the Dominican Republic, not one was willing to take in Jews. Rabbi Jonah B. Wise attended as an unofficial observer. He praised the conference and Myron C. Taylor for their efforts. Despite the accolades, no country allowed Jews to immigrate. The Australian delegation even remarked they didn’t want to import antisemitism.

Lio: Terrifying. You constantly see Jewish people in power trying to make decisions that reflect their loyalty to their host countries, even if it means not helping fellow Jews. This is a small price for a perceived greater good, but history shows the host country always ends up turning against the Jews. In America, similar sentiments are emerging. The New York Times, for instance, published many stories during World War II, but only a few on the Holocaust. At that time, it was owned by Jews, and their policy of downplaying was intentional.

Chaim: That's right. The publisher viewed Judaism as merely a religious category, not an ethnic or national identity. He was an anti-Zionist, too. Before we went on, I mentioned the story about Barry Weiss.

Lio: Right, Barry Weiss, the former New York Times reporter. And on the bridge in Brooklyn, when she gave a speech after her book came out, we tried to talk to her. Barry, if you're listening, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You have the ability to bring some sense to our people.

Chaim: She understands the message, and I was very encouraged by that.

Lio: Some people get it, but the question is, how many need to get it before things change? There are as many Jews living in America as in Israel.

Seth: I want to ask, with the civil war in Syria and refugees pouring into Europe, why is it different from this or any other refugee crisis? Because couldn't there be similar discussions about other crises? What about the Jewish story is of interest to us and not just a universal human experience?

Chaim: It's a question for the world. How come so many UN resolutions are against Israel? Israel is the only country that's a permanent agenda item on UN committees. They talk about Israel even when there's nothing to say. Elie Wiesel said Israel is the Jew among the nations. Before Israel existed, people targeted Jews. The same sentiment exists now. It's not just the Germans; others were involved too.

Lio: The question of refugees is pertinent. In recent years, millions of refugees entered Europe, but during the Holocaust, 900 Jews on the St. Louis were denied entry to the U.S. and had to return to Europe. Nations feared setting a precedent by accepting Jews. There was silence, particularly from Rabbi Stephen Samuel Wise, possibly to maintain a good relationship with President Roosevelt. The same sentiment exists today: Jews feel comfortable in America, thinking it can't happen again, but historically, nations have turned their backs on Jews.

Chaim: Not just in America. Israel, too, has divisions and rifts. Both communities need to work on their unity internally before addressing external relations.

Chaim: The issue isn't just about external perception—

Chaim: How we relate to other people, nations, countries, or anything like that is how we relate to one another.

Lio: I remember in 2012, I was giving a talk at the Israeli embassy on related issues, and a famous basketball player, Moti Awerbuch—you remember him? He was like a legend.

Chaim: I'm old enough to remember him, exactly.

Lio: If you're over 50, it's a name you'll recognize. Anyway, he came up to me and said, "Don't say Israelis and Jews. Say American Jews and Israeli Jews." He really wanted the two camps to come a little closer. He could feel it back then. And in fact, a lot of people feel it. There's always been people who felt it, who kind of got it, and yet somehow they did not prevail. It was ridiculous, but somehow we always end up screwing ourselves.

Seth: The book lays out millennia, centuries of the same cycle repeating. We understand that teaching everyone the book, teaching everyone the cycle, would be a huge challenge. But suppose...

Lio: Asking everyone just to read a book is a big challenge, Seth, just to read a book.

Seth: That's why we made a podcast. Suppose someone listens to the podcast or reads a book and they get it. But still, when I'm hungry, I'll get off my chair and go to the kitchen. If I don't feel something, if I not only feel something, I need to know what to do after that. We're in the same state again. There's got to be something redeeming in both of these camps. You know, Rabbi Samuel Weiss, who was very integrated in American society, didn't want to disrupt anything. He very much wanted Jews to get along with everyone. That's a quality that shouldn't be erased. So, putting the death of all the European Jews on him, it's like I don't want to have salt for dinner, but salt makes dinner taste better. Rabbi Weiss by himself—maybe just call him salt—it's disgusting, but that quality that a Jew has, wanting to be integrated, to not cause problems, there's something to it. Jews should just get along. But you have these two very different worldviews that feel as far as East is from West. When we say, "Jews just need to unite," we could have avoided historical tragedies. Every story has some Jew against another Jew causing the problem. But how does East unite with West with two necessary qualities that feel disconnected? These Jews say we need to get along with everyone. What did Weiss say about Roosevelt's election being more important than anything else? My question today is: you have American Jews wanting to integrate, develop tech, and marry whoever they please. What's the unity between them?

Chaim: You're asking a political question? I'm not a politician.

Seth: No, I'm not asking a political question.

Lio: It's about keeping things as they are versus disrupting things. Right?

Chaim: First of all, we're not pinning anything on Stephen Wise. He didn't cause the Holocaust. His attitude is mentioned in the book because he was a leader in American Jewry, and he acted on keeping European Jewry away from America. He advised FDR not to let them in.

Seth: He said it was too hot for Jews in the Virgin Islands and too cold in Alaska.

Chaim: That's not the issue. The issue is division among Jews, causing antisemitism. You're asking what should they do? There is no answer to that because every situation is different. Tell a parent what to do with their child; it's a process. But if the parent loves the child, they figure it out.

Seth: Who's the child in this metaphor?

Chaim: The unity between us. If we understood unity is key, not only for us but for the world, it's written in texts from various religions. We must unite among ourselves first to help the world.

Seth: Isn't that isolationist?

Chaim: No, it's not isolating to unite for a global example. It's what the world expects from us.

Lio: Do you think Jews will have to leave America to accomplish that?

Chaim: I don't know. Jews have to unite wherever they are.

Lio: We've spoken with prominent antisemites, and sometimes they say, "This is all good, but can you move out and let us deal with our problems?"

Chaim: We need to work on our unity. What happens afterwards, we'll see. This is a segue into a new format. The Jew Function started as a podcast and will now morph into a videocast. We're going to talk about unity, its meaning, and its possibilities.

Chaim: Unity is the key to salvation, and it creates a desire for more.

Seth: If there's a will, there's a way.

Lio: When I feel hungry, I want to eat. We need to feel the need for unity.

Chaim: First, understand the need, then feel it.

Lio: It's like when you have an idea for a song. You work with it, play with it, and feel more about it.

Seth: Sometimes it just comes from the ether.

Lio: True, it can happen both ways, but we can't just wait for a spark.

Seth: I'm worried because it's all here, the whole history of our people.

Chaim: Teach it to everyone. There are more times I didn't include.

Lio: How many sources are there, Chaim?

Chaim: Over 100 books and close to 100 essays and articles.

Lio: If reading is too much, there's an audiobook available with a British accent.

Seth: Which makes it easier to digest.

Lio: Let's hear an excerpt. The British accent makes everything sound more civilized.

Voice: On March 5, 1938, SS officer Adolf Eichmann was commissioned to assemble material for a foreign policy solution, known as the Madagascar Plan. Diligent and meticulous, Eichmann went straight to work...

Lio: This makes it sound like a James Bond novel. The audiobook is available with links somewhere. We must conclude. What's the takeaway from this journey, the Jewish choice?

Chaim: My one-liner: It's our choice. Unity or antisemitism.

Lio: It's a real choice, meaning we'll have to exert effort, it won't always be easy.

Chaim: It's not a bad feeling to feel united.

Lio: Seth, why are you so serious?

Seth: We're at an epic moment in history. These are historical times, and each person who's listening to this is a hero in that movie. We really can take this into our hands. We're at the precipice of a new... We don't have to repeat the same painful cycle again; we can rise to something. You know, peace on earth is peace among all humanity, some kind of real brotherhood of man, is where we're headed. Let's try and begin to feel how good that can be. That's what we're moving towards.

Lio: Nice. I'll take a line from the very end of the book. It's actually not a line by Chaim. It's a quote from Rav Kook, another great personality. To me, it also kind of sums it up. And before I read it, I'll say, yes, if we were doing this podcast 1500 years ago, maybe it was a tough sell. Because, you know, it was before the Spanish thing and the whole Holocaust thing and all the million other examples. But now we have the history, we have the facts, we have the patterns, we've connected the dots, whatever you want to call them. It's all right in front of us, so now it's just a matter of are we going to go with it? Yeah, I don't feel it yet, as Seth said, but so Rav Kook said, "Any turmoil in the world comes only for Israel. Now we are called upon to carry out a great task willingly and mindfully—to build ourselves and the entire ruined world along with us."

Lio: Amen. We don't say Amen here in this program, but yes, if we could will it, that's what we want to have. So this is it, everyone. This is the final episode in the Jewish Choice series of The Jew Function podcast. And of course, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, at The Jew Function everywhere. Also, thejewfunction.com for a learning experience that deals with everything you've heard, but from the point of view of network science and big data. We're going to start meeting here again regularly. You don't have to wait three months between every episode; we’ll have guests and conversations. Follow us—I don't know if it's going to be on Twitter or YouTube, but we will make it very clear. We can't do it by ourselves; it has to be a common effort. So, Chaim, thank you so much. It's been...

Chaim: Thank you guys, really.

Lio: I mean, doing this podcast has been so great just because of the work you put into this book. It's all in the book, read the book. If you want to, if not, just listen to the podcast. It's all laid out beautifully. And we'll see you here on The Jew Function. Seth, everything is in our hands, friends.

Chaim: It is.

Lio: It is. Until next time.