w/ Dan Brotman - from a Lebanese prison to the London School of Economics

Hello, Seth.

Seth

Hey, Leo. Good morning.

Lio

Good evening. Welcome to the Jew Function episode 114. We are live today from Israel and from the US simultaneously. It's not so glamorous, but yes, sure, why not? By the way, those of you who have been following the show for a while, we're working on a new intro. I got new music from Tony. I thought it's time we changed. We have a little melodramatic opening and a few people commented lately. And I think it was good when we started the podcast and nobody was listening and nobody was saying there's anti-Semitism and we should pay attention. But now, two years after October 7th, where the world is, where Jews are, I think we should have a more uplifting tone to our intro.

Seth

Something good is happening?

Lio

Well, yeah. We've been at it for a while. We should be leading the pack with some optimistic.

Seth

Are we in the midst of a gigantic wave of anti-Semitism or is social media just so much a part of our lives that we see what was always there?

Lio

I think we're in the midst of a gigantic wave of denial as to the role of Jews.

Seth

That's a fair answer.

Lio

Yeah. I mean, look, if you ask, first of all, it depends on who you ask. Some people, absolutely, the statistics are showing undeniably that anti-Israeli sentiment and anti-Jewish sentiment is up, right? You see it in all the protests.

Seth

It seems to me it's everywhere. And wild things happening. Australia and Germany again.

Lio

Yeah, yeah. I would say this. And I think, Seth, this is what a lot of our guests have been saying after October 7th. That it's not so much that, oh, there's anti-Semitism. But rather people were given the license to express it. Right? That's, I think, what we're seeing. I think that you and I...

Seth

It wasn't, for example, you may have a lot of aspirations to be a singer, but if you have no food, so your aspirations for being a singer on the side. So it may have also, it's not just that everyone was just waiting to say it and now they can say it. It was also that something changed, whereas it might have been buried before. Now it's, if I now have food, I can now go after my dreams of being a singer, for example.

Lio

No, absolutely. Absolutely. I think the extremists haven't changed, right? There's always a percentage that gets vocal about it and is very extreme in their opinions about Jews. And you can always find them. They're always online. They're always active, right? So they remain consistent. But I think the general climate gave permission, as we said, to people who were not vocal about it, who maybe just felt it. And I think that's the thing that's surprising to people. You and I were talking about it way back when, before even COVID, about how it's latent, it's in people. Everybody has this feeling that Jews are a little different. They have that different attitude toward Jews. Whether they're showing it externally or not, that's a different story. But people harbor these feelings that are different. They don't feel toward Jews as toward any other minority or any other stranger. Let's put it this way. It's a different category. And now this feeling is now rising to the surface. It's coming out. It's being expressed. So it's taking a certain form with students and a different form with older people and a different form with far right people and a different form with far left people. But I think it's just coming out. And you and I, we see it as something on the whole positive because it reveals the extent of the illness. A lot of people are just freaking out. So that's a fair assessment, I think. But I think it takes... Where am I going with all of this? And we want to bring our guests on, so I will get to the point. I think it takes a fairly broad view to see it properly, right? to remove yourself a little bit from the local outbursts of emotions in certain places, in the big cities, in the protests and other places like that, and just kind of take a step back and look at the whole. That's what we love to do here on the Jew function. We look at the whole, look at the system. And so I think our guest today has the opportunity to contribute to that particular view because he is also somewhat of, I don't want to say globalist sounds bad, but a citizen of the world. He's been traveling a lot. He's, you know, like me, you know, I lived in several countries. Not many people do it. So he lived in five countries, I believe. I think he overall visited about 90 countries and 37 of them just after October 7th. And he's a journalist, a storyteller, and an attorney specializes in immigration. And I hope that we're going to hear a perspective that's really broad. He lived in South Africa, lived in Canada, the UK, and I might add just to, and he was a prisoner in Lebanon for a few days on charges of spying for Israel. So I hope we can talk about that as well, and we can hear from him about his experience. And most of all, share this hour and change together with a fellow thinker, a feeler, someone who I know is interested in the problem of anti-Semitism. And maybe we can get to something new between the three of us. So let's give a warm welcome to Dan Brotman.

Speaker 3

thanks for having me hey good morning dan good morning yeah we don't see you yet

Lio

now you see me now i see you live from canada back in canada as you said

Speaker 3

yes uh i am a resident of montreal as of two months ago right i think i saw one of your uh

Lio

One of your clips on Instagram, I think that was a clip from the UK where you explained why you felt very bad about what's happening in the US and that you don't feel you can stay there. But before we get into that, maybe a step back. Most people don't leave their birthplace. A lot of people, most people just stay where they are. In fact, and also I think they did a study also on people and the people that they marry. And you also see that people usually, it's people within the small radius from where they are. We're very local at the end of the day. But here you are, someone who's fairly young and already been to a ton of places, lived, like actually lived, like moved his life. And, you know, when we say lived means like you got your taxes sorted out somewhere else, right? And you have to stand in line at the DMV in several countries. You know, that's usually what lived means, right? How come? What's up? What compels a guy, a good Jew from Boston to travel the world? So compulsively almost.

Speaker 3

Well, yeah, first of all, I'm about to get my fourth citizenship and I was only born with one. So I truly do consider myself to be a person of the world. I recently visited my 100th country, and I continue to travel. I've spent time in some of the most obscure Jewish communities you could ever imagine, and very challenging communities. I've spent time with the Jewish community in Iran. As you mentioned, I've been to Lebanon several times. I was in Syria six months ago where I spent time with some of the six remaining Jews who were still living in the country. So I've always just been a very curious person about the world. And that curiosity has taken me on a journey of 20 plus years living outside of my country of birth. If you look globally, only 3.6% of people live outside of their country of birth. So exactly what you said. Most people stay put. But I always felt most at home when I was outside of the place that I was from. And yeah, the last time I lived in the US, I was a teenager and I'm now almost 39.

Lio

And I think it's an interesting thing because, and I think it touches on a broader thing. You're also an immigration lawyer, right? That's part of what you do.

Speaker 3

So actually, I specialize in immigration policy. So you mentioned I was in the UK. So I recently completed my master's at the London School of Economics in immigration policy, but I've worked for years in immigration related matters. And now I specialize in investment migration, which is when someone makes an investment in a different country and receives citizenship or residency in exchange without having to move there. So I'm sure you heard of Trump's gold card.

Lio

That would be an example of investment migration.

Speaker 3

But many, many countries have programs like these. And that's what I do. And there's certainly been an uptick, you know, within the Jewish community because people are not feeling so secure right now. Not in Israel, not in the U.S. and not in other parts of the world.

Seth

What uptick in in a second citizenship in Israel or just in other places?

Speaker 3

No, anywhere that they can. So whether it's by it could be citizens, citizenship by ancestry. So it could be they have a European grandparent or great grandparent. So people are saying I'm eligible. I want to apply. It could be someone who says, you know, I don't want to leave the U.S., but I want a plan B passport because, you know, I'm just not feeling super confident about the way things are going. So people basically obtaining it in any way they can. I think a real challenge has been that we always saw Israel as our insurance policy as Jews. And I think October 7th shattered that insurance policy for some people where it suddenly doesn't seem like that safe haven that we always thought we could go to. And so for some people, they're looking at alternative safe havens.

Seth

It's like Libya? I mean, where else? Ukraine?

Speaker 3

No, I think I think I listen. I mean, I've traveled to 37 countries since October 7th. I think that there's no place that's permanently safe for Jewish people. So, you know, I almost view it like the stock market. So, you know, any given year, there are certain places that are better for Jews and worse for Jews. Now, I would definitely say that many Western countries are down on the stock market, not such a safe place to be Jewish. But for example, I was recently in Argentina. I did a clip that got over 600,000 views. And I said in the clip, quite provocatively, Argentina is the safest place to be Jewish today. I've been to places in the world where anti-Semitism is not such an issue post-October 7th. And Argentina was one of them where you don't see pro-Palestinian graffiti, where you even have the site where the Israeli embassy was bombed. And they don't even need a security guard there because there's no fear that it will get vandalized, where they have a huge state of Israel street in the middle of Buenos Aires and no vandalism, completely untouched. So, again, I sometimes think that part of our problem in the Jewish community is, you know, over 85 percent of Jews today are concentrated in just two countries, the U.S. and Israel. So we really lack perspective, many of us, on what it's like to be Jewish in other parts of the world. And not all Jewish communities are struggling with the same anti-Semitism issues that we are in places like the U.S., U.K., etc.

Lio

But, you know, the funny thing is that here in Israel, for example, a lot of Israelis like that Plan B idea, right? And everybody was trying to get a second passport. As you said, everybody was like checking, oh, am I a descendant of the Jews expelled from Spain or Portugal? So I get, you know, my mom is working, she's an architect, but she's sitting in an office that's co-owned by one of the largest companies in Israel who is doing this, you know, this background checks for Israelis to be eligible to a Portuguese passport, right? And there was many others, right? People were like, oh, we're going to get a German passport, we're going to get a Dutch passport. But one by one, as you said, these countries have, for lack of a better term, fallen into the hands of Islamic immigration and became very much anti-Semitic. So people who had these passports, who invested there, maybe bought a house there, are now scratching their heads, not even sure what to do. But clearly, we can't just keep running away from our problems, Dan. Plus, not many people can do it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, well, many of our relatives stayed in Eastern Europe. I mean, again, if you look at my family left at the turn of the 20th century, many others didn't. Most people stay. I think to immigrate countries, to uproot and move, it takes a personality type, which most people don't have it within them to do. So again, I'm not talking about people who are fleeing a civil war who really don't have a choice. but I'm talking about people where maybe the situation is uncomfortable. So my family came from Romania. The situation was very, was on both sides. Yeah. So I'm Romanian on both sides. Yeah. That the situation was uncomfortable. They weren't being slaughtered. So there wasn't like they had to flee on mass, but it was a decision that my family made to leave. It was a risk appetite that they were willing to start over. And most people in their community didn't feel that way. Most people stayed.

Lio

When was that, by the way? Just a curiosity. Was that during the 60s? It was a big migration wave out of Romania.

Speaker 3

So my family went at the turn of the 20th century. So I'm talking 1903, 1905. So my family did not go through the Holocaust. As far as I know, I don't have a single descendant who is a Holocaust survivor. I don't have a single relative in Israel. Even though I'm an Israeli citizen and I lived there, but that was out of choice. um so i think i think if you look at jewish people i mean i even go to places like iran you know there are 9 000 jews still living in iran so it's a personality type not everyone has it within them to start over we we do not we're not living at the end of history and i think this is the biggest fallacy is growing up especially when i grew up in the 90s we thought we're at the end of history either you live in the jewish state or you live in the golden medina america and all is well and nothing's going to change and everyone who's not in one of those two places it's going to eventually wind up in one of those two places. And my thesis is that we're not living at the end of history, that we lived through a golden age, that golden age may be coming to an end, I can't tell you what's coming next. But we are not living at the end of history. And there's no reason if you look at 1000s of years of Jewish history, that all of a sudden, you know, Dan Brotman happened to have been born at the one time when Jews will never need to move again.

Lio

Okay, interesting. So I'm curious, because Jews, well, like many in many other cultures and religions, there is a certain trajectory to human life and existence and things happen or supposed to happen. So the way I'm curious to hear from you, how do you see the place of Jews in the world, in humanity? Where are we right now? I'm curious, how do you read that historic map?

Speaker 3

I read that the Golden Age was an aberration, not a change. So, again, the way that I kind of think about it is, you know, when Donald Trump was first elected, people thought, oh, this is an aberration. This is just like a crazy temporary phenomenon that happened. But we're going to go back to normal. We're going to go back to the way things were. It turns out that Donald Trump was not an aberration. Joe Biden was the aberration. And now we're sort of back to normal. And that's how I view the moment that we're in, is we're returning to how things normally are for Jews. This isn't special. We lived during a temporary golden age. Many of us grew up during that time when maybe anti-Semitism was less of a concern, maybe where we felt a little bit too comfortable in the countries that we were living in. But that was an aberration. Now we're just returning to the norm. And the norm is, is that we need to have our antennas up. I believe that as Jews, we have finely tuned antennas that are constantly sensing danger. So regardless of which country we are in, we should have our antennas up. I think that we will continue to be scapegoated for the world's ills. That is the norm. That's the way it's always been. And how dare us think that we were at the end of history and that things were going to be different for us. So I think we need to toughen up and we need to realize that we are going back to the way things normally are.

Lio

So, you know, I was going with you the whole way. There's just one thing that breaks that beautiful cycle that you described, and that is the establishment of the state of Israel. That is definitely an aberration. That was, you know, historically, statistically not supposed to happen. Usually people get kicked out of their land. They get assimilated. They get eliminated. It's done. It's over. There's no second round. And here we are, like our book sort of predicted, like our people yearned for, against all odds suddenly in the middle of the 20th century through a chain, by the way, of really strange coincidences, if you think. It's so surreal that it's either so well guided or so well, I don't know, but it's really against all odds. Suddenly, the state of Israel and Jews are flocking back to their land. So that kind of broke the cycle in a very meaningful way. What do you make of that?

Speaker 3

I would disagree with you. I mean, yes, I would say during the Golden Age, absolutely. More Jews are leaving Israel now than moving to Israel. The net emigration with an E is now larger than the net immigration into Israel. So I don't, again, I think part of what's changed, and I know this is very hard to accept, is that many, many people in the Jewish world, we love Israel, we're connected to Israel, but we don't necessarily see it as a safe haven anymore. We watched the Kishinev pogrom happen on October 7th, filmed, where we were defenseless. I've not seen a pogrom like that happen outside of Israel, at least in my lifetime. And there's been no inquiry. There have been no real consequences for what the government allowed to happen on that day. And I think that if you speak to most Jews, Jews are not flocking to Israel. I'm actually currently in Toronto this weekend.

Lio

A few thousand Jews just left Canada and moved to Israel. What are you talking about?

Speaker 3

And more Jews left Israel and came to Canada. So there's actually a really, really interesting article that came out in an Israeli publication two days ago. Since October 7th, 7000 Jews alone from Israel came to Canada. Canada offered, actually to Toronto specifically, Canada offered a war visa, a humanitarian, almost like a refugee visa, although they're not recognized refugees for Israelis. And thousands and thousands of Israelis fled Israel after October 7th. And they fled to Canada because of this humanitarian visa. I was the head of a Jewish community in a particular city. People left their homes in Israel. They left all their furniture. They didn't sell anything. They literally fled their homes, came and took up these humanitarian visas. This is mind boggling and very, very, you know, again, it's disturbing for Jewish people. Just let me zoom in for a second.

Seth

What was the demographic of the, is there some kind of demographic identifier of the people who left?

Speaker 3

I would assume more secular. I would assume probably a more secular, more liberal population. Many people who don't necessarily have very strong roots in Israel. So there are many Russian Israelis who, I mean, the largest, by the way, the largest immigrant group and Jewish immigrant group in Canada is Russian Israelis. We know we have a lot of friends. Yeah, the Russian speaking Jews you meet in Canada did not come from the former Soviet Union. They came from Israel. So I kind of view Israel like another diaspora community. I think that, you know, there's people that want to move there. There are people that want to move away from there. Do I view it as a particularly safe country? Absolutely not. I've lived there. I've lived there. I was in buses next to suicide bombings. I was living in Jerusalem. I saw, I was really, really, you know, there were very scary times when I was there. But I think if you speak to most diaspora Jews today, we're very thankful that we have a state of Israel. Is it a safe haven for us? I think that's a conversation that we're having. I'm not going to say yes or no, but it's not the same given that it was during the golden age that we're all now struggling with because we're losing that golden age.

Lio

But we have a different question here on the Jew function. I know you're dying to ask a question, Seth, but we don't ask if it's a safe haven or not, because we know that, A, things are very subjective, and for every person, the circumstances may change. There were people who lived through the past two years with the war in October 7th and the war with Iran, and they lived in relative peace, depending on where they lived, right? You have those people as well. And you have people who freaked out and those who got up and left the first day of the war. I know all kinds. And as you said, this is a cycle in history. Even during the biblical times, the country was always peaceful for a few decades. And that's it. And then we're back into what we're asking on the Jew function is always like, what's the bigger play here? As Jews, are we just looking for a safe place? who are we even? Why do we even, why did we end up in a situation where we like find ourselves moving around from place to place, seemingly without a home, always yearning for a home that even now is not the safest, but if it's not about safety, what is it about? What is so special about the land of Israel? What is so special about the role of Jews in the world, you know, in general, that makes us stand out in this way, that make us this permanent refugees, permanent scapegoats that are not able to find peace and quiet. What's up with that? And are we just supposed to just accept it? And this is it. This is life. There's no rhyme or reason to it. We just roll with the punches. Today in Israel, tomorrow in Argentina, next year in Jerusalem, and then next year in Buenos Aires, whatever. I mean, is that how you view it? Or I'm curious.

Speaker 3

Yes, that is how I view it. When I talk to people about roots, I always say my roots are inside of me. And that's how I feel as Jewish people, we operate. And when you're talking about safety, I don't think that safety for us is a place because I think that places are constantly in flux. I think that when there are major political changes, demographic changes, we often get the shorter end of the stick and we're on the receiving end of anti-Semitism. Again, one of the safest places in the regions in the world to be Jewish today, And people, this is like, again, really hard for people to understand is Eastern Europe. I lived in Western Europe. I traveled extensively in Eastern Europe. When we think Eastern Europe, we think communism. We think the Holocaust. We think, you know, it's hard for us to imagine that it's actually more comfortable to be openly Jewish in Poland today than it is in France.

Lio

Yeah, I was in Poland the other day. It was really nice. No Muslims there. It's great. Great.

Speaker 3

I mean, it's not only about, I don't think it's only, I mean, yes. So Eastern Europe, of course, has less immigration, which is part of it. But just generally speaking, it's a much more comfortable. So it's a much more comfortable region to be Jewish. So the point is, is that we cannot depend on places. Places have external factors, whether it's politics, the neighbors, etc. Our sense of safety needs to come from us from within. And that is, I think, the Jewish religion. So I think being in touch with our religion and our traditions, I think that's community building. And I think that Jews have a resilience that we can build community anywhere that we land in the world. So for me, what my basically my thesis is that our sense of safety has to come from community. Our sense of safety is not going to come from a place. I'm including the state of Israel with that because there are just circumstances that are outside of our control that can make a place safer or less safe. Again, I view I view it like the stock market. And I think right now the stocks are down in a lot of the places that were traditionally up. But yeah, and I and I think that part of it is envy. I think that there there is jealousy. I think there's within the Middle Eastern context. I think there's envy that the that you have a very strong, wealthy Jewish state in the Middle East. So I think among the Arab states, there's envy. I think that in the Western world, there's envy because, you know, we've been very successful. politically, economically, culturally. Envy makes people do very ugly things. I also think it's a psychological disorder. I mean, I think antisemitism is a psychological disorder that gets passed down. Again, I don't think we're going to be able to erase it. And I think that we need to combat antisemitism. But what I'm concerned about is that for many of us in the Western world, where religion has been lost and fighting antisemitism has become our new religion, And I think that's a very negative Jewish identity. I think that being Jewish needs to be based on a positive identity, which means our traditions, our religion, our peoplehood. And I think that when our entire identity is only focused on antisemitism.

Seth

We agree with you. Hold on. Hold on. Tradition, people. What were the things you just said now?

Speaker 3

I mean, I said tradition, religion, peoplehood.

Seth

Okay, hold on. Where does Israel fit into that? Hold on. We agree with you. Hold on. We totally agree. I'd love to get rid of the word anti-Semitism. Sure. It's building yourself off of some negative 100%. So we're all on the same page about that. Where does Israel fit in to this whole thing?

Speaker 3

I think Israel probably fits into all of it. It fits into the religious part because if you look at our traditions, I mean, we yearn to return to Jerusalem and to the land. So Israel fits into the religion. I think Israel plays a very central role right now in Jewish peoplehood because it is the country with the largest number of Jewish people today. So again, Israel, even if you don't live in Israel, Israel almost serves as this magnet where Jews from around the world meet, like a meeting place. So I think it plays and it plays a very important role in Jewish identity building, whether it's birthright or other types of educational programs. So I think Israel plays a very central role, and Israel is also the excuse that's used today in anti-Semitism that's perpetrated against Jewish people. It's often done in the name of anti-Zionism or anti-Israel, but 50 years ago, it wouldn't have been about Israel. It would have been about something else. Yeah.

Seth

Okay, so it has an important role in your—

Speaker 3

For sure, for sure.

Seth

Okay. So the next thing that I'm trying to put all these details together, and it's a very interesting life you have, and it's a very unique perspective. Like you said, there's a tiny percent of people who, not as small as the amount of Jews, but a tiny percent of people who travel and live outside their country. So by looking at the goal, it changes all the other things that you've said so far. A person who needs to get from one village to another and there's a mountain in the way, so that mountain is a hindrance. A person who is a mountain climber and that's his sport and he wants to get to the top, the mountain is his partner or it's exhilarating. right so depending on the goal all these details that you're talking about totally change their meaning so what is the goal of what is your goal what is your mission like everything you've said fine great but are we just floating through space with it like we'll move for the next you know this is not the end of history maybe the end of history will come in another 5 000 years or another 30 000 years and until then we're just going to um like you know just watch the stock market there's people who trade the stock market they don't add any value to the economy they get rich when the market goes up they get rich when the market goes down puts and calls and just you know just finding where to make money no matter what they're not really adding value though they're just moving to the place

Lio

that works for them. Maybe what Seth is asking, Dan, is paint us your ideal life. Where's it all going? And what's the purpose of this? What's the purpose of it all?

Seth

Like, for example, if you open a business, sorry for elaborating on this, but I'm trying to focus on it. If you were to open a business now, I'll help Jews go to a place where you can have a good life for the next five to 30 years. That's the name of your business,.com. And you're an expert. You've been around. And you can help Jews move and relocate to safe places. Cool. To what end? Is it just so that my body will stay alive for the next 5 to 30? Or where is it all going? And not only where is it all going, how does it fit in the story of what's the purpose of a Jew? Who is a Jew?

Speaker 3

i i i mean listen i would take a step back and i think that it's not only a jewish issue i would say where is the world going right now are we going to have world war three in the next decade um is is the u.s truly on a decline right now um are you know probably yes yeah possibly possibly I mean, again, I so I mean, I read an incredible book. It's almost like my joke. It's like my Bible. It's called Move and it's by Parag Khanna. And Move talks about how human beings have survived throughout history and human beings have survived throughout history by moving, by being able to move when circumstances change. That's the key to human survival. Many people do not move and they perish. And I think that part of why Jewish people have survived as long as we have is because we have that muscle memory. We have the antenna that tells us when a situation is getting dangerous. We're the canary in the coal mine. We know how to start over. We value things like education, which we can take with us anywhere. But I don't think that this is a uniquely Jewish problem. I think this is a human problem. And what Parag Khanna writes about is about how climate change is actually going to change human migratory patterns by 2050. And that some of the places that we think of as being amazing places to live in, like Arizona or Australia or Miami, are actually going to be terrible places to live. And places that we don't think are so great, like Detroit, are actually going to become some of the best places to live because they have stable weather and fresh water. So I think this is part of the human condition of survival that Jews have just perfected. And this muscle memory is what I think will continue to ensure our survival. Something that really haunts me in Jewish history was, you know, after the rise of Hitler, first of all, there were a few images. One was the Jews lining up outside of the consulates in European capitals trying to get out, trying to get their papers. And the countries wouldn't give them papers and many of them perished during the Holocaust. That desperation, their muscle memory was activated, but they actually couldn't do anything about it. That's partially what motivated me to get into the immigration field because I never want Jews or other people to ever feel like they're stuck and to be out of options.

Seth

So, Dan, insurance, important industry because if God forbid something happens, auto insurance, let's say.

Speaker 3

Right.

Seth

Important industry because if God forbid something happens, you need to have insurance on your car, right? Correct. And liability insurance on the car, you know, on the passengers as well. Correct. But we don't want anything to happen, but it's really good to have the insurance business, right? Exactly. What I see, what we really want to happen is to be able to make it to the wedding safely or make it to the mom's house safely or get to work on time. Right. That's what we that's the goal. And insurance is this business along the way that we have to have and we need to do it well, just in case. It seems to me you're in that middle layer there in this kind of insurance layer. Right. You're you're serving an important role in that. place we're trying but but my question still is we're trying to get somewhere we're trying to get to a a world that is presumably we share this opinion we're trying to get to a world where things are good for everyone where we can all live together in harmony until we get there we need insurance we need to be able to move we need to do all these things right so i guess maybe that's what I'm having trouble with.

Lio

What I would ask after what Seth said is what kind of movement do we have to make which is not necessarily geographical, physical movement, which is part of the insurance, as you describe it, but rather what kind of movement do we have to make as humans? You say it's for everyone. Yeah, we agree. It's for everyone. Where do we have to go? We have everything. We're This really is a golden age of humanity in the sense that we have really access to everything, right? Every need, every necessity can be taken care of. We can move all over the world as part of it. We can move goods and medicine and everything. There can be potentially food for everyone. Really, humans today live better than an average king 150 years ago. And yet we are falling back into war. You said we're almost in World War III. I'll argue that we already are in World War III. It may not look like people in trenches, even though you have some of that as well. But the level of instability and stress is sweeping through the planet. So the question is, what happened? Maybe after traveling so many countries and meeting with so many people, what have you seen? And what is the reason we are not able to live the good life? At the very least, forget some higher goal, which we may get to. But just living a good life as humans on this little planet that we already know. It's small. It's one. So what's the story? What did you find?

Speaker 3

So what I found, and again, I think the recent election, mayoral election in New York is pretty emblematic of what I see in other countries, which is the system of capitalism that we're currently living under doesn't work anymore. It's producing massive winners and losers, and the losers are not being compensated for their losses. So what I see globally is growing income inequality. And again, unlike the medieval times today, we have democracies. So when people are frustrated, they can take out those frustrations at the ballot box. I think we see weakened social safety nets in many countries where people feel very vulnerable. So the inequality is growing, the losers of this capitalist system that we're operating in are not being compensated, the social safety nets are being eroded. And so I think a lot of it comes down to our economic system and inequality. And because of inequality, people want to either leave, or they want to make radical political changes to their environment. And again, I think if you look at why did Joe Biden lose the election? Why did Mamdani win the election? It's all connected to people feeling hard done by economically. So I think that's that's one of the great challenges of our times of our time right now. We know from Germany, and I'm not comparing the situations that when people in Germany were very hard done by economically, Jews are a very easy scapegoat. You know, we I mean, let's be honest. Forbes Israel did a list last year of Jewish billionaires in the world. 15 percent of dollar billionaires in the world are Jewish and forget billionaires. We're a successful community. We're successful in every sphere that we operate in. And so people, when they feel hard done by, become very resentful of successful people. So I think that's part of it. I think it's part of it. It's inequality and envy.

Lio

Hands down. The question is, what will make the, forget the 1%, but 10% of the population that has a lot of the resources and dollars in its hands, as you said, what would make them share? Why would they share that? Okay, so some people elected a socialist-leaning mayor somewhere. Communists tried it. You can't force people to do something against their own sense of welfare and pleasure, right? This millionaire worked hard for his money, whether by cheating or not, it doesn't matter. He worked hard. He hustled enough to make that money. And now you're going to tell him to give it to someone? Never going to happen. Never happened before in history. So I'm asking again a very tough question. Like we're getting into a very interesting territory, which is down to the human nature that's at play here, right? I mean, the only time in human history where this thing was not an issue is when people lived in tribal societies. Tribal societies, there was a natural feeling of like a large family, right? And just like in a small nuclear family, there's a sense that you're going to be taken care of, right? Nobody's going to like, oh, little Johnny here didn't have dinner. Oh, you should have worked harder to get dinner. No, it doesn't happen, right? You take care of little Johnny. You take care of all pops. And everybody who needs help is taken care of. And also everybody who can't contributes. There's a natural feeling like that. But that feeling sort of we lost that natural connection as people evolved, as what we say, our egos grew. We wanted more pleasure. and for less, you know, with less effort, more pleasure, less effort. So we were willing, or it was not even a choice maybe, we were just driven out of these comfortable familial ties into the systems we see today. There was capitalism, there was some socialism, some fascism, different methods that people tried to, right, to get the most out of, suck the marrow out of life. But none of it seems to be very stable. So where are we, you know, so what's the maybe either root problem or maybe how do you see a solution? I'm curious. And just to add a cherry on top, do you see Jews play a certain role in that?

Speaker 3

I don't think that there's a solution. I think this is the norm. So again, if I look at my grandparents who lived through World War I, World War II, the Great Depression, this is the norm. Human history is not meant to be stable. I think that we experienced the spoils of the Cold War when the U.S. won the Cold War. It was the 90s and Clinton. That was an aberration. All that's happening now is we're going back to the instability that is meant to be in the world, the way that it's always been. And how have Jews survived? We've survived because we've taken care of each other. We've survived because we've embraced our tradition. We've survived because we've maintained a sense of dignity, even in very challenging situations. So I just say to Jews, toughen up. We're going back to the way things normally are. Unfortunately, we were coddled because we grew up during a very, very temporary period of respite. But now we're going back to the norm.

Seth

Let's get back to the conversation in a second. When you say toughen up, what was it like in Lebanese prison, by the way, if we can do an aside?

Speaker 3

what was it like in Lebanese prison listen I mean it was that was an experience where you're really hated for who you are it's not it's not based on anything that you've done it's just purely based on who you are and it was the first time in my life you know it was the first time in my life where I experienced hatred based on my blood essentially um you know you know often in the west people say oh it's fine to be Jewish as long as you denounce Israel as long as you denounce Zionism, you're fine. So it's almost like your actions, you can absolve yourself, so to speak. But in a Lebanese prison, you can't absolve yourself. When it comes down to your blood, you cannot absolve your blood. It is not related to actions. So for me, that was a different type of antisemitism. And to be honest with you, something that crossed, and again, I'm not comparing, but a lot of my thinking is informed by Jewish history and experiences. I thought a lot about the Holocaust while I was there, while I was held hostage there, because I thought about other Jews who lost all of their freedom and who were hated simply for their blood and who they are, not for anything that they've done. And that's not something, again, most Jewish people in the West would really understand. Because if you want to, you can go to a Students for Justice in Palestine rally, and people will say, you're a good Jew. So, you know, we have no problem with you. You simply can't do that if it's based on your blood.

Seth

How did they not leave you behind? How did someone know you were there and then get you out?

Speaker 3

No, no one got me out. I was eventually tried in abstention or eventually released by a judge, but still held for another 24 hours after the release. I was held for nearly a week. Yeah, I was with a tour group. We were in Syria. People knew that it happened. Pardon?

Seth

People knew that it happened.

Speaker 3

They knew that it happened because I was with my tour group leaving Syria, going back into Lebanon to catch our flights home. And my detention began when they let the entire group through and not me. So everyone knew what was happening. And I remember, you know, the last time I had contact with someone in my group, I was in this horrible holding cell with no light and no water. And I didn't know what was going to happen. the door to the cell opened, a little window, and it was my tour guide. And she said, Dan, there's nothing else we can do for you. We have to leave you here. They're making us leave the border. We'll call the US embassy and your emergency contact. And then a Lebanese soldier pointed at me and started shouting Israeli soldier, Israeli soldier. And I shot her a look of terror. And then the door slammed shut. And from that moment on, I understood that I was on my own. And again, my only crime was who I am, not anything that I did. So it was a different type of anti-Semitism. And the only real reference I had in recent history was the Holocaust. Just because, yeah.

Seth

Yeah, so it's very, very clear why you feel that we need to have safe places to go. Like that's another question why you keep going to places that aren't safe. But it's clear that the need for Jews, maybe not as resilient as you, to be able to go to safe places is necessary.

Speaker 3

My question is… The two Israeli embassy workers in Washington, D.C. are dead. The protester in Boulder is dead. So what is safety? Ultimately, what it is, is it's wrong place, wrong time. That can be anywhere in the world. That could be in Jerusalem when a bus blows up. I don't, I, I, in Argentina at the Amia building. I don't, I think that, I think that just to say a place is safe or a place is unsafe, I think it's more nuanced. I think a lot of it is divine providence and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Seth

And again, that can be in the United States. Okay, you brought it up divine. So what is the goal of all of this? You know, like we have the Bible, we have the promised land. Is there a goal to all this? Or alternatively, we're just another creature on this boo ball.

Lio

As Holla said, maybe we just go straight to the point because we say it a lot on our show, and I think it's only fair that Dan hears it. So we also have a bunch of books that we really hold in high regard, like the Bible. Also the Bible, by the way, but the Bible is kind of hard to understand. Usually we look at it with like a semi-historic, semi-mythical, religious. it's kind of hard to make sense of it, but, uh, Jewish sages, uh, wrote about, um, sort of the inner meaning of that. And also wrote about the, the inner, um, the, like the, the real essence of what a Jew is. And for me, I grew up in it. I was born in Israel, grew up in Israel. Right. And I also didn't know why people hate us for no reason. As you said, for my blood, right. Oh, because you're a Jew, that's it. Enough reason for me to kill you. Uh, that drove me nuts. Uh, It was irrational. And although I was also looking for some insurance policies and I ended up leaving Israel and spending half of my life elsewhere, that search for why this is happening and what's behind this, it kept me up at night. And so when we started to find our own people, our own Jewish ages, talking about the root of the Jewish people as a non-ethnic group, rather a group formed around an ideology, the only group that formed around an ideology in the ancient world. And then really pulling representatives from all the other nations, if you will, into this group just because they followed the Abrahamic idea of mercy and kindness and taking care of the other. And eventually you could sum this whole ideology with love the other as yourself, love your friend as yourself. This thing was at the root of our people, but it wasn't meant only as a guideline for our people. It was actually a code, if you will, for all of humanity. But humanity on its own cannot just get up and adopt this mindset. Even Jews can do it. It's very difficult to love the other as yourself because you love yourself more than anyone else. So to love the other as yourself means to love the other more than anyone else, including yourself. That's a tall order. So people, Jewish sages wrote about this, wrote about the method by which we can arrive at it. and also what it means for our entire perception of reality. This is no simple matter of ethics or morals or some law that, you know, if you break it, go to prison for. Rather, it's a way to interface with reality. It's on that level. And so in the books that we read about this, they said, well, Jews are not meant to simply just move around. Rather, they're meant to live up to this law of loving the other as yourself. And to do it by their choice. However, if we choose not to do it, the system is going to apply pressure on you. That pressure we call antisemitism. And it's irrational. It will take different clothing depending on the time.

Seth

Meaning there's a reason why we keep getting kicked around.

Lio

Yeah, because we're not living up to our purpose. That's really what Seth and I are saying. But what the sages are saying, and we feel it very much in our own flesh, so to speak. that it's something that we're not doing in life. And that this running around is never going to end unless we really do it. And we have to do it. Like someone has to do it. It just happens to be this group of people. You know, bummer, you know. But it is very much intimately linked with who we are. It's not a coincidence that we're being really persecuted by what you call this psychological disorder. It is like a disorder because people, Even anti-Semites can't explain why they really hate Jews. If you take it apart, they say, oh, it makes no sense. And yet they hold on to it. So I'm curious, what do you think about this? What do you think about this as being a guideline and a purpose and something that we should consider doing?

Speaker 3

You mean specifically loving others like we love ourselves?

Lio

Yeah, that thing. And the fact that when we're not doing it, Because, by the way, historic patterns show it repeatedly. Every time Jews turn on Jews, every time we break out of this unity, that pressure, the expulsion, the pogrom, it comes. It comes. We checked it. Hundreds of cases. Our entire first season is really going through the history of Jewish people and going through the main chapters. And it always comes down to that. the first temple, the second temple, the Spanish expulsion, even the Holocaust, even October 6th, there was always this great disunity between Jews that preceded that. So it's a question, you know, makes one.

Speaker 3

So I think part of the problem is kind of actually the inverse. I think we love other people a little bit too much and we don't love ourselves enough. And I think that's also part of the issue. So I think that people respect Jews when we respect ourselves. And I think when people see us wavering about our beliefs, our country, our unity, then we become easier targets. I think people respect strength and unity and pride. And, you know, again, I struggle. I struggle with Jews who voted for Mamdani. And I know that that was not the majority of Jews, but it was probably, my understanding is that probably a third of Jews in New York voted for Mamdani.

Lio

Among the youth is much more than a third, by the way. Among the youth is more than a third.

Speaker 3

So I struggle with that because I think it goes back to loving everyone else more than you love yourself and your own people. And so I think that that is, I think that's a challenge that we have in the Jewish world. I mean, I, you know, I grew up with, you know, Jewish community and many of the people that I grew up with are not don't live active Jewish lives anymore. If I look at my own family, most of my own family has assimilated out. Most of my cousins are not Jewish. So I think we just, yeah, I think that we need to start loving ourselves and our people more. And I actually think that that will lead people to respect us. One thing I can tell you is, and I actually do agree with President Trump on this, which is that people in many parts of the world respect strength. That's what they respect. And so, you know, when I was held in Lebanon, I really tried not to break and to be very composed because they wouldn't respect me if they saw me fragile or broken. Certain cultures really just respect either brute force or just strength and pride. And I think that we're not on this world to be popular. And as Jews, we're not in this world to be popular. That's not our role. We're not in this world to be well-liked. You know, I look at all of the university buildings that are named after Jews and all of the cultural institutions. And then I look at the fact that Jewish parents can't even afford to give their kids a Jewish education. And it makes me wonder, why are we funding everything else, but we're not actually funding the Jewish education of our own children? So I think that part of what needs to happen in terms of combating anti-Semitism, which I think is always going to be there, as I said, psychological disorder not going away, world is going to continue to be very, very unstable, and we will be scapegoated, is to actually just start taking pride in who we are, and to actually put ourselves first. I mean, I think that during this golden age, it diluted us a little bit. So we again, we thought, oh, we're finally we're at the final destination. Things are safe. Antisemitism is not an issue. We don't actually need to hold on to being Jewish anymore. Let's let's let's get super involved in so broader social justice issues. I think that social justice issues are very important, but I always say put your oxygen mask on yourself before you help someone else. And I think that the crisis in the Jewish world today, I truly, truly believe this, is a lack of Jewish education. I think that people not receiving a good Jewish education, I think Jewish education is inaccessible financially for many, many people. I think that when you don't have a strong Jewish education and people are telling you that Zionism is racism or they're telling you terrible things about Jewish people, you're not equipped to think otherwise or to defend yourself because you weren't given those tools as part of your education. So I would personally, you know, as we start to think about the next generation of Jewish philanthropists, I'd like to see more philanthropy invested within the Jewish community before we name more university buildings after us. We have to take care of ourselves before we take care of others. It's not an either or. But I actually think in the Jewish world, we've really neglected in recent times taking care of our own. I think it may change. So I think that now that the golden and I know it's very hard for people to hear this, the golden age of America is ending, the golden age for Jews is ending, we're in a transition period, I don't know what comes next. But I think that there's going to be a wake up call for Jewish people. And it's already started, that we don't have control over what's happening in the world around us. But we have control over how we relate to each other, we have control over how we educate our children. And I think that we need to start focusing on Jewish unity, Jewish education, Jewish pride, because that's what we do have control over.

Lio

Amen. Now, so it's funny, you know, I find myself, even though I have other questions, I find myself kind of like circling back to a little bit to where we started and ask you if after hearing you say all those things, doesn't that necessitate a certain change in attitude toward the state of Israel? Because where else can we actually do this? Where else can we derive this pride that you're talking about? I think what we saw, and what we always see, by the way, and we had a guest who said it very nicely, he said, how goes Israel? Goes the rest of the Jews in the world. So even if I like it, I don't like it. Those last 20, after the failed Oslo Accords, these very liberal, progressive, thinking of the others before our own safety, really, to the point that you're not seeing reality, it was exactly mirrored by Jews in America. By the way, I saw the exact same thing, taken the form of American Jewry, but it was the same weird approach to ignoring the signs of reality. And what I see now in Israel is a renewed position in the world. On the one hand, yes, a lot of antisemitism and all of these pro-Palestine protests and all that, But the position of power, absolutely. Arab countries are either afraid of Israel or in great awe and respect of what it has done in the region. I mean, I'm feeling it here. I see it and I read from people who are, you know, specialized in the Arab populations around us. You see that, you know, renewed sense of like, you know, we are doing this and we're doing this together. that sense of unity that everybody thought is going to disappear and is going to be the doorway into the destruction of Israel, that turned around. People are uniting en masse. In fact, it's really the majority of the country is going through that state. There's still a lot of conflict, but there's this new spirit, really, among the young people, those who serve in the military, those who serve in the reserve forces. They all went through that feeling of, oh, my God, They hate us because we're Jews. They don't care about our political views or anything. And if we don't unite and stand up strong, that's it. So I'm asking you if you maybe change. And I'm not asking this because I live in Israel. And I'm really asking you if after everything you've said, doesn't it make sense that we need that center of gravity?

Speaker 3

Yeah, absolutely. Listen, I think there are two things. The first thing is we cannot separate in the era that we live in today. We cannot separate Israel from Jewish identity. So many people, you know, anti-Semites, anti-Israel activists, they say it's fine for you to be Jewish as long as you denounce Israel, as long as you don't feel an attachment to Israel. I don't think that's possible. I think that Israel is Israel as a concept in a state is central to Jewish identity. I think Israel is going down a disastrous path. And if I were living in Israel, I would emigrate. I think it's going down a terrible path. However, it's almost like if you have a brother who's a drug addict, he's your brother. You love him. You're not going to denounce him. You don't necessarily want to live with him, but you care about him and you'll visit him. That's kind of how I see Israel. It's central to our identity. You know, we can piss inside the tent. I'm not going to piss outside the tent. I'm very, very critical of the direction Israel's going in. I'm not going to do that publicly. I think we can have internal conversations within the Jewish community. he's still my brother. Even if he's a drug addict, even if he's in recovery, he's still my brother. And I'm not going to say horrible things about him in public. But when we have family conversations, I can express serious concerns. The bottom line is whether you think Israel is going in a good direction or not, it is central to Jewish identity today. You cannot separate Israel. You cannot separate Zionism from Jewish identity today. And I think that increasingly that is what we are being asked to do. I felt when I, again, I, I followed Mamdani's campaign out of interest slash horror, but also because I'm American, I'm interested, my roots are in New York. And, and again, I felt that it was kind of like, yeah, I love Jews as long as you don't have a connection to Israel. It's almost like we love Jews on condition that, and I don't think that that is fair or possible. So I don't think our personal views, you and I may have different views on the direction Israel's going in. I don't actually think it matters. I think what matters is that what we agree on is that Israel and Zionism are central to Jewish identity today. Even if World War III begins, even if New York becomes a place where Jews don't want to live anymore, Israel will remain that place, whether it's in a good situation or bad situation, it's going to be central to our identity. New York is not central to our identity. Sure, Jews have done very well in New York. But to be honest, if Jews stay in New York, if Jews don't stay in New York, it's not really going to change what it means for us to be Jewish. I think that what happens in the state of Israel, for good or for bad, has a profound impact on what it means for us to be Jewish.

Lio

They say that people, and we've had guests on the show who did not grow up Jewish, but had that feeling inside. And we talk about it a lot, by the way, about being Jewish, not genetically, but having that feeling, that desire for unity in the same way. And plus, we also acknowledge that there have been so many exiles and dispersion of the tribe, the 10 lost tribes and all of that. You really can't tell who's a Jew and who's not a Jew. But what's interesting is that when people fly to Israel and they come there, they have this feeling. It's kind of like, I can be here. It's crazy, but I feel it. This is it. Or I'm out of here. And I feel it's the same for also for the people who may have immigrated out of Israel in recent years. There's always people leaving. That's okay. People have always left and joined the tribe. That's kind of interesting thing about Jewish history as well. A lot of our leaders did not even start as Jews. They came. They joined. And then they emerged right from within the...

Speaker 3

So what I also just wanted to add quickly, which I find very interesting, because, again, my my background is immigration, is even how Israeli emigration, people leaving the country is also changing the Jewish world. So I'll give you an example. I was, you know, yes, a couple of months ago, I was in Slovenia, which is one of the most, in my opinion, because I've traveled a lot around Europe, one of the most anti-Israel countries in Europe. I mean, I call it the Ireland of Eastern Europe. It's really, really, really uncomfortable. There's about 200 Jews in Slovenia. The government is so, you know, even after October 7th, you know, the government wouldn't meet with the Jewish community. It's a very, very difficult situation for Jewish people. What's interesting in Slovenia, I met with one of the leaders of the community. Hundreds of Russian Israelis since October 7th have immigrated to Slovenia. So this is a community that only has 200 members and it's now growing. Israel is becoming a source of renewal in the diaspora as Israelis move. In the United States, there's an organization called the IAC, the Israeli American Council. They have a huge conference in January in Florida. Israeli communities are forming their own types of Jewish communities now in the diaspora. They have their own political advocacy organizations. So Israelis are also changing the diaspora. It's a very dynamic relationship, whether it's growing small communities like Slovenia, whether it's huge communities that have their own organizations in the US. I even had an interesting meeting yesterday with some, and this is, it made me again, it made me think of Jews fleeing. I had an interesting meeting yesterday with someone who moved to Toronto four months ago. He's from Russia. He left Russia because of the war. He had one Jewish grandparent, wasn't really raised Jewish, immigrated to Israel, lived in Israel for several years. And he couldn't take it anymore because he said, I was there for October 7th. Then I was constantly in bomb shelters with a war with Iran. And I fled the war in Russia. So he exemplifies the Jewish experience is that we have no control over our external situation. But no matter where we are in the world, if there's a Jewish community, we belong to something bigger than ourselves. And I think that's what it means to be Jewish. No matter where you are, there is a community of people who have shared beliefs, shared values, and ultimately are looking out for each other, especially in an era where the government is not looking out for us.

Lio

I'm curious if you could have the ear of all the Jews listening to you right now as a learned world traveler and we're looking forward into the next, let's say the next five, ten years. We all acknowledge, We all agree things are in flux. We're not certain what will happen tomorrow. The Middle East is unstable. Europe is unstable. America is unstable. The East is. There's a lot of instability around the world in general. So maybe there is a, you know, maybe you can find a quiet spot here or there. But as you said earlier, this is more of an insurance policy. So if we could, you know, talk to all the Jews in the world, what would you, you know, from all your experience and wisdom and just everything else, like what would you tell them? What would your message to a younger Jew who lives in New York and is now thinking, for example, because, you know, I lived in New York. Seth and I were in New York. Those are our lives. So a young Jew in New York was thinking, well, what should I do? Should I go to school or not? Or maybe I just graduated, but I'm not sure what to do. I get into this. What advice would you give them?

Speaker 3

I would start by saying people respect people who respect themselves. So I would say that our role as Jews on this earth is not to be popular. It's to be a light unto the nations. And so that's the first thing. And being unpopular is difficult. You know, when I grew up, I was bullied. I was unpopular. It sucks. Everyone wants to be well-liked. But God did not put us on this earth as Jews to be a well-liked people. We are meant to be role models. We are meant to, as I said, alight onto the nations. So people respect people who respect themselves. So we need to start respecting ourselves. But respecting ourselves also means knowing ourselves. So I think that if you can, try to connect to a part of your Jewish identity. That could be religion. It could be reading a book about Jewish history. It could be reading the news in Israel a couple of times a week. But I would say take an extra step. Make an extra effort every week to connect to some aspect of what it means to be Jewish. I think those I think those would be. And then the third as the third thing, as I said, is that Jews were Jews were not put on this earth to be popular. And being unpopular is hard. And that's okay. And that's why we have each other. So those are probably the three things I would say to a young person who's struggling with their Jewish identity, struggling in terms of planning their future. I don't think there's a right reason or I don't think that there's a right or wrong reason. You know, should you stay in New York after Mamdani? Shouldn't you stay in New York? Jews stay in all different types of situations around the world. When external circumstances are great, when external circumstances aren't great, I think it's a very personal decision. But I think that part of what can help you cope either with the temptation of assimilation, of being overly accepted in a society or of anti-Semitism, is having a strong sense of self, is having community and having self-respect. That will not help you navigate through either situation. Many Jews say, oh, you know, I don't want to be in New York anymore. I'm going to move to Florida. Many Jews in Canada say, oh, I'm going to move to Florida. I think it's going to be easier. Again, your roots are within you. So focus on your Jewish identity. Focus on your Jewish pride. Circumstances around you are not guaranteed. Florida might be great now. It might not be great in five years. So let's focus a little bit less on geographic places and more about community values tradition and showing people that we respect ourselves. Those would be basically the main messages that I would convey to a young person today.

Lio

It's an amazing message. If you can also leave in the chat, what are the three good places to go to in case... Just in case.

Speaker 3

Again, when I talk about where it's good to be Jewish, I'd say you can only evaluate it on an annual basis because we're in a world right now where things are changing so quickly. If you had asked me a year ago, are we going to have someone who's potentially an anti-Semite, be the mayor of New York? I'd say never in a million years. Things are changing every year. The only thing you can control is, you know, the only thing you can control is where you are at the present. If where you are at the present is working for you, that's great. But I think that we're, I think that history is going to write about this very peculiar period that we're living through. I really believe that we're living through history right now. And I really cannot predict what the world will look like next year. I can't predict where we'll be good for Jews next year. But what I can tell you is that some of the places that are very, very bad to be Jewish, because I've seen places that are not so bad to be Jewish, like I mentioned Argentina, Eastern Europe, but I've seen places that I think are terrible to be Jewish. I think Slovenia is a terrible place to be Jewish. I think being shouted at on the street and blamed for the policies of the state of Israel when you're a Slovenian citizen who happens to be of the Jewish faith. I think that's terrible in a country with 200 Jews. I lived in the UK. I think the UK is really not a comfortable place to be Jewish. And many Western European countries, Belgium, France, I've spent time in these places. They're not comfortable places to be Jewish. I can't tell you what will be next year. I can only tell you what is right now. And all I can tell you is that who 20, 25 years ago would have ever thought that Poland would be a great place to be Jewish today, who in a million years would think that New York would elect a mayor like Mamdani. So who knows what's going to happen. Let's focus on what we can control. That's our Jewish identity, our Jewish self-respect. And those are our roots that are within us, that we take with us no matter where we find ourselves in the world.

Lio

So, Dan, before I thank you for your time with us, I just posted in the chat a quote where you ask our guests to read a quote from the sources. This is from Shem Mishmuel. If you can maybe just give it a read. I think it's kind of, you know, it's relevant to what we've been talking about a little bit.

Speaker 3

Sure. When Israel are all in unity, they do not fear a thing. For this reason, along with the punishment of exile, came separation of the hearts and unfounded hatred, as without them, exile would have been impossible altogether.

Seth

In a distance of traveling, we all have to unite, and running, we all have to unite, and if we unite as one family with love, then hopefully, no matter where we go, the whole world will be like home.

Lio

Yeah, the world will just want this as well. I think we heard it from non-Jews who said, guys, you got to show us how to do it. So I think you got to show us how to do it. Show them how to do it. The fact that we have this ability to go, to travel from place to place, to find a home everywhere, almost as you said, because there's an inner connection that changes everything.

Speaker 3

And if I could just do a quick plug. So I love creating content as I visit different Jewish communities around the world. I speak about anti-Semitism in different countries. Where is it safe to be Jewish today? You can follow me on Instagram. My name on Instagram is Dan Brotman, one word, B-R-O-T-M-A-N. And I'm going to be traveling to several more countries even next month. I'm traveling to some Jewish communities in the Arab world even next month. And I'm going to be posting about what those experiences are like. So please follow me on Instagram, engage with me. And I'm going to continue to report on the Jewish world throughout my travels.

Lio

amazing and we'll put links also in the description in case you didn't write it down and of course there's an open invitation Dan if you're in Israel if you want to see a Jewish community in Israel we'll have you over for coffee anytime and you know this has been this has been great you know I feel someone who's like standing on his feet and you know he's been in the world and speaks from experience and not from his excuse me, from his ass, you know, that's nice. Well, what I love about being Jewish is that we

Speaker 3

can be very particularist, but very global at the same time. And what I've always said is that part of how I'm able to appreciate other cultures in the world and why I travel so much is because I value my own culture first. You cannot value other cultures if you don't value your own first. It all starts at home. And because I'm so passionate about being Jewish and my heritage and religion, I can be also very, very passionate about learning about other cultures in the world. They go hand

Lio

in hand. So true. And which is why we're inviting everyone here to also check out the first season, the first 22 episodes of The Jew Function, because you will learn about what makes this culture so unique, this group of people, so unique, not just because we are so few of us in the world and we're so ridiculously successful, but what actually makes us who we are, the root of our strength, if you will, and our purpose. And I think that will help you also be a very proud Jew, a strong Jew. So follow us, like us, leave a comment because it helps. And we'll see you here again next week. Dan, good luck on all your travels. Stay safe. And we are the Jew function. All the best.