Nov 18, 2024
6 min
What Drives Jew-on-Jew Hatred?
A summary of TJF Talks Episode #94 with guest Norma Livne
It’s a complicated, often perplexing issue: Jews turning against Jews, fueled by internal conflicts that sometimes seem as old as antisemitism itself. Whether it’s ideological differences or political maneuvering, what we see today can leave us asking: why are Jews dividing themselves, especially now when unity feels more urgent than ever?
This conversation comes alive when Lio and Seth sit down with Norma Livne, a journalist who has spent years researching Jewish self-hatred and antisemitism. As seen in the video below, these voices try to map out what’s happening within the Jewish community and how it relates to the broader conflicts Israel faces.
Norma, known for her deep dives into current affairs and her research on antisemitism, doesn’t back away from difficult questions. She has contributed to books like The New Antisemitism: Mutation of a Long Lived Hatred and Jewish Self-Hatred: The Enemy Within, and now she poses a question that too many are afraid to ask: how much damage does Jewish division cause in today’s battles? The ones on the world stage, and the ones that happen in our own homes?
Fighting from Within
One of the biggest revelations in this discussion is how much internal division exists within Israel itself. The question isn’t just about antisemitism from outsiders. It’s about Jews actively working to undermine the unity and sovereignty of their own country.
Norma points to something both shocking and troubling. A major Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, widely accepted as liberal and left-leaning, has been undermining the foundation of Israel in ways that go beyond just holding different opinions. Lio explains how he grew up with Haaretz in a warm, liberal household, peace-loving and open-minded. Yet now, he’s watching that same paper, once a staple in his family’s life, take disturbing stances against Israel’s foundational values.
He shares a startling example: “The owner of Haaretz, Amos Schocken, actually went to a conference in London and referred to the Hamas terrorists who committed the atrocities on October 7 as ‘freedom fighters.’” Lio points out that these kinds of statements don’t just spark debates — they divide entire communities. And this tension has real-world impacts. Multiple Israeli government ministries have severed ties with Haaretz after such incendiary remarks.
“It boggles the mind,” Lio adds. “How does such hatred of one group of Jews by another group of Jews survive in the face of all logic?”
Left-Wing Ideals Gone Awry?
Haaretz and similar movements represent a deeper ideological divide, especially among Jews on the left. The issue goes deeper than politics, it’s about identity, survival, and the collective future. The problem isn’t about differing opinions, it’s about silencing opposing viewpoints entirely.
Norma underscores this point, observing that the current political climate isn’t new. Jewish disunity is an age-old issue, dating back even to ancient times. “One of the reasons for the destruction of the second temple was this same kind of disunity within the Jewish community,” she says. For Norma, Jewish self-hatred isn’t merely a concept, it’s a historical reality that keeps repeating itself, generation after generation.
She drives this home by discussing the case of the South African National Congress (ANC) getting paid by Qatar and Iran to launch efforts against Israel in international courts. “It’s not surprising when foreign governments act this way,” she notes, “but what’s shocking is when Jewish outlets like Haaretz actively take part in these destructive narratives.”
In fact, Haaretz has pushed for an Israel that’s no longer a Jewish state. Their vision? Israel as a country for all its citizens, a far cry from the ideals upon which it was founded.
Pathological Empathy and National Survival
It’s not only Israeli Jews who are caught in this ideological storm. Jewish communities in America and Europe also face internal divisions that mirror what’s happening in Israel. Seth weighs in here, linking the phenomenon to what Gad Saad calls “pathological empathy.” Jews, in their attempts to engage with progressive ideals like diversity and inclusion, sometimes end up siding with those who wish them harm.
Seth asks, “What happens when Jews do this to themselves?” He speaks of how this “suicidal empathy” can explain why even some Jews side with openly antisemitic figures or work for causes that conflict with Jewish self-preservation. Seth contrasts this with recent shifts in American politics, where people finally pushed back against these extreme progressive values, a movement embodied by Trump’s promise to cut funding to universities that foster antisemitism.
But Norma draws attention to a more dangerous issue: how these inner conflicts put Jews at risk in times of crisis. “When we hate ourselves, when we side with forces looking to destroy us, we give them permission,” she states plainly. It’s a sobering way to frame Jewish disunity, highlighting how it echoes far beyond any ideological debate.
Is Unity Possible?
While the conversation covers lots of ground such as Haaretz, international meddling, and ideological divides, the underlying question remains: Why can’t Jews unite? And perhaps more importantly: What will it take to break this cycle?
Norma believes the first step to unity is acknowledging the problem. “If we don’t see that there’s a problem, how are we supposed to solve it?” she asks.
She argues that the events of October 7, 2023, were an undeniable wake-up call. For Jews, it’s no longer enough to keep pointing fingers outward. “We have to realize that unity isn’t just about combatting external threats. It’s about fulfilling our mission, a mission that’s not national, but global.”
For Norma, the role of the Jewish people is a clear one: becoming a light unto the nations. It’s not just about achieving security and prosperity in Israel. The goal is to become an example that spreads unity to the rest of the world. “Unfortunately, Jewish unity is always triggered by bad times,” she says.
Lio agrees, recalling the oft-repeated idea that “bad times make strong men, strong men make good times, and good times make weak men.” This cycle, applied to Jewish unity, shows that something has to shift if Jewish people are ever going to break the pattern of coming together only when survival is at risk.
A Return to Jewish Identity
Perhaps the most powerful but undercurrent theme of the conversation is Jewish identity itself. Norma emphasizes that without a strong sense of what it means to be Jewish, there can be no unity.
She points out that Jewish identity has eroded in the modern world, particularly across the younger generations. “Kids today grow up without a clear understanding of what being Jewish actually means,” she says. She advocates for an educational revival — one that reminds Jewish people of their history, purpose, and most importantly, their collective mission.
This identity crisis, according to Norma, has left many Jews feeling disconnected from Israel or the idea of a Jewish nation. Without this grounding, they can easily adopt ideologies that oppose Jewish unity and Zionism.
As Seth puts it, this isn’t just about history lessons or reinforcing traditions, it’s about understanding that Jews have a mission that goes beyond mere survival. “We’re not just here to stay alive. We’re here to achieve something greater, not just for Jews, but for the whole world.”
Conclusion
So, where do we go from here?
The conversation reveals a lot about the Jewish world’s current divisions and where some of the deepest fissures lie. But beyond that, it shows the potential that exists when Jews can acknowledge their internal conflicts and take steps towards unity. From Norma’s perspective, Jewish unity is not just a choice. It’s the key to not only Jewish survival but global peace.
As she sums it up: “We have to stop pointing the finger at others and start looking at ourselves.”
Ultimately, what does it mean to be Jewish today? It’s less about holding onto old divisions and grievances, and more about embracing the potential role the Jews can play in healing a fractured world.
Share:
It’s a complicated, often perplexing issue: Jews turning against Jews, fueled by internal conflicts that sometimes seem as old as antisemitism itself. Whether it’s ideological differences or political maneuvering, what we see today can leave us asking: why are Jews dividing themselves, especially now when unity feels more urgent than ever?
This conversation comes alive when Lio and Seth sit down with Norma Livne, a journalist who has spent years researching Jewish self-hatred and antisemitism. As seen in the video below, these voices try to map out what’s happening within the Jewish community and how it relates to the broader conflicts Israel faces.
Norma, known for her deep dives into current affairs and her research on antisemitism, doesn’t back away from difficult questions. She has contributed to books like The New Antisemitism: Mutation of a Long Lived Hatred and Jewish Self-Hatred: The Enemy Within, and now she poses a question that too many are afraid to ask: how much damage does Jewish division cause in today’s battles? The ones on the world stage, and the ones that happen in our own homes?
Fighting from Within
One of the biggest revelations in this discussion is how much internal division exists within Israel itself. The question isn’t just about antisemitism from outsiders. It’s about Jews actively working to undermine the unity and sovereignty of their own country.
Norma points to something both shocking and troubling. A major Israeli newspaper, Haaretz, widely accepted as liberal and left-leaning, has been undermining the foundation of Israel in ways that go beyond just holding different opinions. Lio explains how he grew up with Haaretz in a warm, liberal household, peace-loving and open-minded. Yet now, he’s watching that same paper, once a staple in his family’s life, take disturbing stances against Israel’s foundational values.
He shares a startling example: “The owner of Haaretz, Amos Schocken, actually went to a conference in London and referred to the Hamas terrorists who committed the atrocities on October 7 as ‘freedom fighters.’” Lio points out that these kinds of statements don’t just spark debates — they divide entire communities. And this tension has real-world impacts. Multiple Israeli government ministries have severed ties with Haaretz after such incendiary remarks.
“It boggles the mind,” Lio adds. “How does such hatred of one group of Jews by another group of Jews survive in the face of all logic?”
Left-Wing Ideals Gone Awry?
Haaretz and similar movements represent a deeper ideological divide, especially among Jews on the left. The issue goes deeper than politics, it’s about identity, survival, and the collective future. The problem isn’t about differing opinions, it’s about silencing opposing viewpoints entirely.
Norma underscores this point, observing that the current political climate isn’t new. Jewish disunity is an age-old issue, dating back even to ancient times. “One of the reasons for the destruction of the second temple was this same kind of disunity within the Jewish community,” she says. For Norma, Jewish self-hatred isn’t merely a concept, it’s a historical reality that keeps repeating itself, generation after generation.
She drives this home by discussing the case of the South African National Congress (ANC) getting paid by Qatar and Iran to launch efforts against Israel in international courts. “It’s not surprising when foreign governments act this way,” she notes, “but what’s shocking is when Jewish outlets like Haaretz actively take part in these destructive narratives.”
In fact, Haaretz has pushed for an Israel that’s no longer a Jewish state. Their vision? Israel as a country for all its citizens, a far cry from the ideals upon which it was founded.
Pathological Empathy and National Survival
It’s not only Israeli Jews who are caught in this ideological storm. Jewish communities in America and Europe also face internal divisions that mirror what’s happening in Israel. Seth weighs in here, linking the phenomenon to what Gad Saad calls “pathological empathy.” Jews, in their attempts to engage with progressive ideals like diversity and inclusion, sometimes end up siding with those who wish them harm.
Seth asks, “What happens when Jews do this to themselves?” He speaks of how this “suicidal empathy” can explain why even some Jews side with openly antisemitic figures or work for causes that conflict with Jewish self-preservation. Seth contrasts this with recent shifts in American politics, where people finally pushed back against these extreme progressive values, a movement embodied by Trump’s promise to cut funding to universities that foster antisemitism.
But Norma draws attention to a more dangerous issue: how these inner conflicts put Jews at risk in times of crisis. “When we hate ourselves, when we side with forces looking to destroy us, we give them permission,” she states plainly. It’s a sobering way to frame Jewish disunity, highlighting how it echoes far beyond any ideological debate.
Is Unity Possible?
While the conversation covers lots of ground such as Haaretz, international meddling, and ideological divides, the underlying question remains: Why can’t Jews unite? And perhaps more importantly: What will it take to break this cycle?
Norma believes the first step to unity is acknowledging the problem. “If we don’t see that there’s a problem, how are we supposed to solve it?” she asks.
She argues that the events of October 7, 2023, were an undeniable wake-up call. For Jews, it’s no longer enough to keep pointing fingers outward. “We have to realize that unity isn’t just about combatting external threats. It’s about fulfilling our mission, a mission that’s not national, but global.”
For Norma, the role of the Jewish people is a clear one: becoming a light unto the nations. It’s not just about achieving security and prosperity in Israel. The goal is to become an example that spreads unity to the rest of the world. “Unfortunately, Jewish unity is always triggered by bad times,” she says.
Lio agrees, recalling the oft-repeated idea that “bad times make strong men, strong men make good times, and good times make weak men.” This cycle, applied to Jewish unity, shows that something has to shift if Jewish people are ever going to break the pattern of coming together only when survival is at risk.
A Return to Jewish Identity
Perhaps the most powerful but undercurrent theme of the conversation is Jewish identity itself. Norma emphasizes that without a strong sense of what it means to be Jewish, there can be no unity.
She points out that Jewish identity has eroded in the modern world, particularly across the younger generations. “Kids today grow up without a clear understanding of what being Jewish actually means,” she says. She advocates for an educational revival — one that reminds Jewish people of their history, purpose, and most importantly, their collective mission.
This identity crisis, according to Norma, has left many Jews feeling disconnected from Israel or the idea of a Jewish nation. Without this grounding, they can easily adopt ideologies that oppose Jewish unity and Zionism.
As Seth puts it, this isn’t just about history lessons or reinforcing traditions, it’s about understanding that Jews have a mission that goes beyond mere survival. “We’re not just here to stay alive. We’re here to achieve something greater, not just for Jews, but for the whole world.”
Conclusion
So, where do we go from here?
The conversation reveals a lot about the Jewish world’s current divisions and where some of the deepest fissures lie. But beyond that, it shows the potential that exists when Jews can acknowledge their internal conflicts and take steps towards unity. From Norma’s perspective, Jewish unity is not just a choice. It’s the key to not only Jewish survival but global peace.
As she sums it up: “We have to stop pointing the finger at others and start looking at ourselves.”
Ultimately, what does it mean to be Jewish today? It’s less about holding onto old divisions and grievances, and more about embracing the potential role the Jews can play in healing a fractured world.
Share:
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